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Post by zanygame on Jan 14, 2023 19:30:52 GMT
No I just wanted you to admit cutting a bit of waste was not going to solve the problem, so we could discuss the real issues. Yes my opinion is that we will need to pay more if we want the NHS we seem to, but I have also asked you which services or new treatments you would forego to keep the bill down. And we haven't been trying it for 70 years, we've been doing it for 70 years. And every year we live longer, cure and treat more. Do you think that its all free? Of course its not free - we have been pouring ever larger sums of money into the NHS for its entire existence. And every time it has significant increases in funding its productivity falls...the NHS has more money, more doctors and more nurses than it did in 2019 - and is treating less patients. That is the reality that should be tackled - not a simplistic 'oh just give them another £7 Billion'How can you say that after admitting that the treatments available to each patient have multiplied. As for the number of nurses, are you sure?  |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 14, 2023 19:47:00 GMT
It would be hypocritical for anyone who insists that we review the cost of NHS treatment and care for elderly people without doing the same for people who have medical or physical conditions that require extensive treatment or care either from birth or injuries . Afaik no leftie has addressed this . If we are effectively wasting money on expensive treatments for a previously productive 80 year old then we are doing that and more for expensive treatments for 8 year olds that will never be productive due to their conditions. The difference is of course that it’s difficult to virtue signal when being tough on 8 year olds but easy when you are targeting old people. Lefties pick their targets.. Not sure how you reached the conclusion that lefties want those younger with long term illnesses to be abandoned. Based on the true statement that more and more of the NHS's resources are spent on the elderly. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 14, 2023 21:43:39 GMT
But your argument about my position is that it isn't just a narrow box, it incorporates all people not just the few, as those who do think in the narrow confines of the their limited political box. Such as yourself. Grow up and stop having your silly digs at me, and we can give other readers a break from this nonsense. Says that prat who keeps having silly digs at me and is doing so again. So just do me a favour and fuck off with your shit ONLY IN RESPONSE to your nonsense. Give it a break. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 14, 2023 22:17:30 GMT
Of course its not free - we have been pouring ever larger sums of money into the NHS for its entire existence. And every time it has significant increases in funding its productivity falls...the NHS has more money, more doctors and more nurses than it did in 2019 - and is treating less patients. That is the reality that should be tackled - not a simplistic 'oh just give them another £7 Billion'How can you say that after admitting that the treatments available to each patient have multiplied. As for the number of nurses, are you sure?
Totally - in Sept 2019 there were 326,942 FTE Nurses and health visitors working in the NHS - this rose to 359,495 by Sept 2022. For your other point, I'm not sure what treatments have multiplied between 2019 and 2022 - productivity fell, but I'm not sure you can provide any evidence that is due to each patient receiving more treatment. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 15, 2023 9:39:09 GMT
How can you say that after admitting that the treatments available to each patient have multiplied. As for the number of nurses, are you sure?
Totally - in Sept 2019 there were 326,942 FTE Nurses and health visitors working in the NHS - this rose to 359,495 by Sept 2022. For your other point, I'm not sure what treatments have multiplied between 2019 and 2022 - productivity fell, but I'm not sure you can provide any evidence that is due to each patient receiving more treatment. . Thanks for our figures, they seem to vary from the graph from statista I showed, but I'll go with yours as I have found the same numbers. For my other point, I was thinking of the hundreds of breakthroughs we have seen due to the RNA based vaccines that came out of Covid. However you are right, it would be difficult to prove the amount of time each added to each patient treated. That said how the heck do you measure productivity in such a complex system. In any case I'm in danger of boxing myself into defending absolutes I don't believe in, and experience has taught me how you love that on here. I do believe there is significant waste in the NHS, of course there is. What I do not believe is that we can provide the ever growing services and treatments it supplies without it costing more. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 15, 2023 12:20:53 GMT
It would be hypocritical for anyone who insists that we review the cost of NHS treatment and care for elderly people without doing the same for people who have medical or physical conditions that require extensive treatment or care either from birth or injuries . Afaik no leftie has addressed this . If we are effectively wasting money on expensive treatments for a previously productive 80 year old then we are doing that and more for expensive treatments for 8 year olds that will never be productive due to their conditions. The difference is of course that it’s difficult to virtue signal when being tough on 8 year olds but easy when you are targeting old people. Lefties pick their targets.. Not sure how you reached the conclusion that lefties want those younger with long term illnesses to be abandoned. Based on the true statement that more and more of the NHS's resources are spent on the elderly. Not sure how you reached the conclusion that I did…other than not reading the post or not understanding the post you read. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 15, 2023 12:33:33 GMT
Not sure how you reached the conclusion that lefties want those younger with long term illnesses to be abandoned. Based on the true statement that more and more of the NHS's resources are spent on the elderly. Not sure how you reached the conclusion that I did…other than not reading the post or not understanding the post you read. I'm not even going to address this as its so patently obvious what you said. My only comment on this post is Yuk. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 15, 2023 12:39:02 GMT
Not sure how you reached the conclusion that I did…other than not reading the post or not understanding the post you read. I'm not even going to address this as its so patently obvious what you said. My only comment on this post is Yuk. This ..”it would be hypocritical for anyone who insists that we review the cost of NHS treatment and care for elderly people without doing the same for people who have medical or physical conditions that require extensive treatment or care either from birth or injuries.” Does not mean that..”Not sure how you reached the conclusion that lefties want those younger with long term illnesses to be abandoned.” If you are going to reply to a post then at least read it and if you read it and can’t understand it then ask for help. |
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