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Post by Steve on Jan 12, 2023 20:23:43 GMT
One was corrupted and I've always accepted the 2019 vote. Vinny is suggesting we should accept GE votes as indicating approvals to promised policies.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 12, 2023 20:53:54 GMT
Steve
1) Politics can be more complicated than manifesto vs manifesto.
2) Lots of things get pushed through without manifesto mandate, Gay Marriage for example (not against it, but it wasn't in a manifesto).
Gordon Brown signed the Lisbon Treaty without manifesto mandate to do so.
3) Neither the Labour party or the Tories are actually that fond of referendums.
We've not had that many over the last 53 years.
And we hadn't had any in the 53 years before 1970.
But you're entitled to your views and I respect that.
Differences make for healthy politics and healthy democracies.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 13, 2023 11:38:35 GMT
One was corrupted and I've always accepted the 2019 vote. Vinny is suggesting we should accept GE votes as indicating approvals to promised policies. The SNP is doing that very thing. And it is why Starmer is feeling his way to forming a manifesto position with respect to Brexit. The problem is when you support one issue and not another. So the indication of support for a policy in a manifesto is very unreliable. |
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Post by nonnie2 on Jan 14, 2023 1:31:32 GMT
Simply put, one dictatorship that controls the member states, thus making those country's governments into local councils. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 14, 2023 8:04:38 GMT
Simply put, one dictatorship that controls the member states, thus making those country's governments into local councils. How does that square with the proposed greater rights of the directly elected Parliament and removing the single veto that blocked the wishes of all other members? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 14, 2023 10:22:35 GMT
It doesn't. But removing the single veto returns to the age-old problem of the EU where policy that makes perfect sense in one place gets applied elsewhere where it makes no sense at all.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 14, 2023 10:51:15 GMT
It doesn't. But removing the single veto returns to the age-old problem of the EU where policy that makes perfect sense in one place gets applied elsewhere where it makes no sense at all. Then the process of making the law will decide what kind of law it is...obligatory, applied as best for each country, or not obligatory. And countries can negotiate an opt out. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 14, 2023 11:01:55 GMT
Well I hope for their sake that it works out that way.
Not that it makes much odds to us, thankfully.
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Post by see2 on Jan 17, 2023 14:30:11 GMT
Well I hope for their sake that it works out that way. Not that it makes much odds to us, thankfully. I wouldn't put your mortgage on that, if you have one. It's a long long time, long before the EU existed that the UK was a leading country in the world. Our days of sending in a battle ship are long gone, in too many ways we appear to be just a tad higher than the rest of also ran countries. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 17, 2023 14:52:00 GMT
We don't need to be a "leading" country, we just have to be a democracy.
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Post by thomas on Jan 18, 2023 8:45:20 GMT
Simply put, one dictatorship that controls the member states, thus making those country's governments into local councils. i thought you were talking about westmisnter there for a second..... |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 18, 2023 9:14:03 GMT
The House of Commons is a democracy.
It is filled with MPs we can sack.
The EU Commission is not a democracy.
But, if MEPs replace the Commission in holding policy initiative, then the EU finally becomes democratic.
That, would be a good thing.
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Post by nonnie2 on Jan 18, 2023 21:56:27 GMT
Simply put, one dictatorship that controls the member states, thus making those country's governments into local councils. i thought you were talking about Westminster there for a second..... If you believe Westminster is a dictatorship, you should reconsider taking part in political forums. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 19, 2023 8:38:52 GMT
i thought you were talking about Westminster there for a second..... If you believe Westminster is a dictatorship, you should reconsider taking part in political forums. its because westminster is an out of date feudal dictatorship not fit for the twenty first century that i take part in political forums.
We see for example how the brussells parliament has backed up its member state ireland and the people of northern ireland , while westmisnter shits all over scotland. I know which union i would rather be in.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 19, 2023 9:01:39 GMT
It's moving to abolish the veto and replace it with QMV (Qualified Majority Voting) - which is a continuation of what's been going on for a long time. WHich means basically removing the veto from smaller nations - or even larger nations that don't have many qualifying votes. The UK never managed to overturn anything that the EU wanted to do. Create an army to help repel Russian incursions without the provisos NATO. The rest is history. |
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