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Post by oracle75 on Jan 12, 2023 10:13:24 GMT
Nothing seems to have happened in the 7 months since that and with 27 countries each able to veto it then of course it's going nowhere. Interesting though that it shows that all those who said the European Parliament couldn't initiate things were wrong. Well it’s interesting that they voted to increase the power of the 27. Are you sure this was not a measure handed to them by the 27 appointed persons ? Because when I went over to the Brussels Parliament building admittedly 15 years ago it was made quite clear to me the MEPs voted on measures introduced by those 27 people and had absolutely NO mechanism to bring legislation into being through their own action as our MPs can through members bills. Yes I know the likelihood of one being successful without government backing is on a par with winning the euromillions but the fact is when I, at the age of 17, stood in the chamber of the House of Commons during the summer recess with my then MP and twenty or thirty odd other sixth formers about to get the vote, Ian Grist had the absolute right to initiate a Members Bill. When back in about 2004 I stood in a meeting room in the European Parliament at the invite of an MEP they were quite keen to make it known they had no such power then. I’m not sure what’s changed, the European a parliament is sod all to do with us these days and thank fuck that is so. MP's may have the power to initiate legislation. The actual number of times it has gone anywhere is tiny. But I am glad the EU is going to verify this right in writing. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 12, 2023 11:08:15 GMT
Yes it is the goal of that small minority. Ain't going to happen though Without the Tory veto a big stumbling block has been removed from the federalists path. I do not know what form they will mould it into. I just hope for their sake it is democratic. It wasn't a 'Tory veto' it was a UK referendum interlocked veto But several other EU countries have same and no public appetite for a federal EU so will veto this . It ain't going to happen. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 12, 2023 11:09:33 GMT
Nothing seems to have happened in the 7 months since that and with 27 countries each able to veto it then of course it's going nowhere. Interesting though that it shows that all those who said the European Parliament couldn't initiate things were wrong. Well it’s interesting that they voted to increase the power of the 27. Are you sure this was not a measure handed to them by the 27 appointed persons ?Because when I went over to the Brussels Parliament building admittedly 15 years ago it was made quite clear to me the MEPs voted on measures introduced by those 27 people and had absolutely NO mechanism to bring legislation into being through their own action as our MPs can through members bills. Yes I know the likelihood of one being successful without government backing is on a par with winning the euromillions but the fact is when I, at the age of 17, stood in the chamber of the House of Commons during the summer recess with my then MP and twenty or thirty odd other sixth formers about to get the vote, Ian Grist had the absolute right to initiate a Members Bill. When back in about 2004 I stood in a meeting room in the European Parliament at the invite of an MEP they were quite keen to make it known they had no such power then. I’m not sure what’s changed, the European a parliament is sod all to do with us these days and thank fuck that is so.
Yes because I read Vinny's link. Did you? |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 12, 2023 11:14:40 GMT
The Tories created that referendum lock.
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Post by Steve on Jan 12, 2023 12:01:53 GMT
The Tories created that referendum lock. Indeed and so many senior Tories lied supposing it didn't exist, many of them are in current government posts |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 12, 2023 12:42:02 GMT
Had we voted to stay, that referendum lock could easily have been removed by a future government.
All it would have taken would have been another Blair like Prime Minister with a penchant for the EU and a like minded party in power with a big majority.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 12, 2023 12:53:36 GMT
Well it’s interesting that they voted to increase the power of the 27. Are you sure this was not a measure handed to them by the 27 appointed persons ?Because when I went over to the Brussels Parliament building admittedly 15 years ago it was made quite clear to me the MEPs voted on measures introduced by those 27 people and had absolutely NO mechanism to bring legislation into being through their own action as our MPs can through members bills. Yes I know the likelihood of one being successful without government backing is on a par with winning the euromillions but the fact is when I, at the age of 17, stood in the chamber of the House of Commons during the summer recess with my then MP and twenty or thirty odd other sixth formers about to get the vote, Ian Grist had the absolute right to initiate a Members Bill. When back in about 2004 I stood in a meeting room in the European Parliament at the invite of an MEP they were quite keen to make it known they had no such power then. I’m not sure what’s changed, the European a parliament is sod all to do with us these days and thank fuck that is so.
Yes because I read Vinny's link. Did you? I did read Vinnys link. I see words that say Parliament activated a process I don’t see words like Parliament INITIATED a process And that’s why I raised the issue of where this initiative came from. I seriously doubt it actually originated on the floor in a plenary session. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 12, 2023 13:03:56 GMT
Had we voted to stay, that referendum lock could easily have been removed by a future government. All it would have taken would have been another Blair like Prime Minister with a penchant for the EU and a like minded party in power with a big majority. No because the Lords would have thrown such out unless it had been clearly part of an election manifesto. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 12, 2023 13:06:23 GMT
'Are you sure this was not a measure handed to them by the 27 appointed persons ?'
Yes because I read Vinny's link. Did you? I did read Vinnys link. I see words that say Parliament activated a process I don’t see words like Parliament INITIATED a process And that’s why I raised the issue of where this initiative came from. I seriously doubt it actually originated on the floor in a plenary session. So you missed these words: 'On Thursday, Parliament adopted a resolution calling on the European Council to agree to start the process to revise the EU Treaties.'That's all that's been activated, a request and clearly not some OK of a demand from above as you suspected |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 12, 2023 13:57:50 GMT
I did read Vinnys link. I see words that say Parliament activated a process I don’t see words like Parliament INITIATED a process And that’s why I raised the issue of where this initiative came from. I seriously doubt it actually originated on the floor in a plenary session. So you missed these words: 'On Thursday, Parliament adopted a resolution calling on the European Council to agree to start the process to revise the EU Treaties.'That's all that's been activated, a request and clearly not some OK of a demand from above as you suspected No no Steve, I didn’t miss that mealy mouthed attempt to suggest the floor of the chamber had power. What does adopted a resolution mean ? Who proposed that resolution ? From where was it actually originated. As I said I don’t actually give a fuck any more because it’s fuck all to do with us thank fuck but I simply don’t believe an MEP has the authority to initiate such a process. If you read on you’ll see the cabal of 27 appointees has the power to say ‘fuck that’ anyway. I can’t personally see what Plaid’s MEP would gain from complaining to us that they had no power to raise legislation as Gwynfor Evans had in London. I’m sure you’d be the first to shit on that statement if I said I’d heard it from Nigel Farage but I heard it from the lips of a pro EU Marxist Welsh Nationalist whose invite to see the place I took up long before I got seriously involved in the political game. Why would Gillian Evans lie to me (and the rest of the group) like that ? |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 12, 2023 14:03:58 GMT
Had we voted to stay, that referendum lock could easily have been removed by a future government. All it would have taken would have been another Blair like Prime Minister with a penchant for the EU and a like minded party in power with a big majority. No because the Lords would have thrown such out unless it had been clearly part of an election manifesto. Many in the Lords are people like Heseltine, Mandelson, Clarke and other Europhiles. I don't have much confidence in the Lords. I think we should replace it with an elected senate. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 12, 2023 14:06:00 GMT
Goal post moving much? Fact is no government could have removed that referendum interlock without General Election approval.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 12, 2023 14:48:11 GMT
General Elections are fought on a great deal of issues. I doubt any of the leftie voters who voted for Blair liked this bit of the 1997 manifesto which stated: And it resulted in the introduction of tuition fees. There was also this bit: Before 1997 Labour's John Prescott had been telling the public they would renationalise the railways and had been seen to be drawing up plans to do so. www.independent.co.uk/news/labour-draws-up-plan-to-renationalise-railways-1568038.htmlNo plans for rail renationalisation were ever put in the manifesto but many of the public remembered the soundbites and thought they would. And lets face it, how many voters do you know who read manifestos in depth and vote on the basis of that ? |
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Post by Steve on Jan 12, 2023 14:49:44 GMT
You're going down the road of saying Boris didn't have electoral OK to leave. Not wise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 15:27:06 GMT
You're going down the road of saying Boris didn't have electoral OK to leave. Not wise. He had the referendum mandate (direct from the people) and was elected as Prime Minister (by the people) to oversee our exit from the European Union. What's unwise is to try and forcefully undo the mandate by going against the referendum and elected manifesto on claims that the people are too stupid. |
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