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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 19:25:50 GMT
Your hero worship of New Labour is quite a spectacle to behold, as is your constant outdated terminology. And they were always just as prone to dirty tricks as the Tories. And you deny being left but claim to be centre left which surely is itself left if less so than others? Fact is you are actually centre right. You must be to have actually voted Tory in 2017. No one who honestly includes the word "left" in their self description would ever vote Tory. Because of your total bias you are in no position to judge me, which is why I take such posts ^^^ to be just you letting off steam. Just remember that each time people like yourself insisting on being victory fodder for the Tories, you let working people down. Says the man who actually voted Tory in 2017! Lol |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 10, 2023 19:30:53 GMT
Your hero worship of New Labour is quite a spectacle to behold, as is your constant outdated terminology. And they were always just as prone to dirty tricks as the Tories. And you deny being left but claim to be centre left which surely is itself left if less so than others? Fact is you are actually centre right. You must be to have actually voted Tory in 2017. No one who honestly includes the word "left" in their self description would ever vote Tory. Because of your total bias you are in no position to judge me, which is why I take such posts ^^^ to be just you letting off steam. Just remember that each time people like yourself insisting on being victory fodder for the Tories, you let working people down. Just a suggestion, but could you two bury the hatchet. You are two of a very few people who post anything worth looking at. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2023 4:44:20 GMT
Because of your total bias you are in no position to judge me, which is why I take such posts ^^^ to be just you letting off steam. Just remember that each time people like yourself insisting on being victory fodder for the Tories, you let working people down. Just a suggestion, but could you two bury the hatchet. You are two of a very few people who post anything worth looking at. I tried to at Christmas in a spirit of goodwill. Do you remember the response I got? Fact is he and I disagree fundamentally on so many things and unlike with you and I there is no willingness from him to concede to valid points but a frequent insistence on mislabelling me an extremist or whatever. I find mine and his disagreements increasingly tiresome and inwardly groan whenever I get a notification from him, but he represents a valid subsection of opinion I am loathe to ignore. Plus I used to be a member of the party he now claims to support but voted against when I was doorstepping for it in 2017. Feelings run deep in me. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 11, 2023 7:56:51 GMT
Just a suggestion, but could you two bury the hatchet. You are two of a very few people who post anything worth looking at. I tried to at Christmas in a spirit of goodwill. Do you remember the response I got? Fact is he and I disagree fundamentally on so many things and unlike with you and I there is no willingness from him to concede to valid points but a frequent insistence on mislabelling me an extremist or whatever. I find mine and his disagreements increasingly tiresome and inwardly groan whenever I get a notification from him, but he represents a valid subsection of opinion I am loathe to ignore. Plus I used to be a member of the party he now claims to support but voted against when I was doorstepping for it in 2017. Feelings run deep in me. Perhaps you might consider not mentioning your feelings on New Labour and Tony Blair where they are not directly relevant to the subject. It must be tiresome for you to see Corbyn continuously referred to in the same way. |
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Post by see2 on Jan 11, 2023 8:42:53 GMT
Because of your total bias you are in no position to judge me, which is why I take such posts ^^^ to be just you letting off steam. Just remember that each time people like yourself insisting on being victory fodder for the Tories, you let working people down. Says the man who actually voted Tory in 2017! Lol Your deviation doesn't alter the reality of history  If people like you had the freedom of mind I have, we wouldn't have had a Hairbrained leader of the Labour party and would very likely won the election 2019. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2023 8:47:12 GMT
I tried to at Christmas in a spirit of goodwill. Do you remember the response I got? Fact is he and I disagree fundamentally on so many things and unlike with you and I there is no willingness from him to concede to valid points but a frequent insistence on mislabelling me an extremist or whatever. I find mine and his disagreements increasingly tiresome and inwardly groan whenever I get a notification from him, but he represents a valid subsection of opinion I am loathe to ignore. Plus I used to be a member of the party he now claims to support but voted against when I was doorstepping for it in 2017. Feelings run deep in me. Perhaps you might consider not mentioning your feelings on New Labour and Tony Blair where they are not directly relevant to the subject. It must be tiresome for you to see Corbyn continuously referred to in the same way. I mention it whenever I feel it is relevant, as do others with Corbyn. But I am not any so called Corbynista in the sense that he is not the reason I joined the party nor the reason I left and I can acknowledge some of his flaws as a leader. People tend to assume that anyone on the left is some sort of Corbyn groupie. I am not. The problem between See 2 and I is not what I choose to discuss - I do not after all have the same problem with you and we manage to respect each other - but the abject failure of him to be able to understand where I am coming from as you seem to be able to do, and his insistence upon mislabelling me coupled with arrogance. This latter got my hackles up from the start. I think you would agree based upon your own experience with me that when people debate reasonably with me and acknowledge where I am coming from even if they disagree I tend to reciprocate. But on any politics forums I would tend to discuss those things I feel most strongly about and that includes what I see as the failings and betrayals of New Labour and Tony Blair. And my experience inside the party of the hostility and dirty tricks from such people have brought that into sharp focus for me. So apologies but it is going to be one of my main points of criticism for a while. But I talk about it because I feel I want to and because I think it is important. I don't do it to annoy you and apologise if it does |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2023 8:58:53 GMT
Says the man who actually voted Tory in 2017! Lol Your deviation doesn't alter the reality of history If people like you had the freedom of mind I have, we wouldn't have had a Hairbrained leader of the Labour party and would very likely won the election 2019. One thing you most certainly have not displayed on this forum is freedom of mind. You are utterly incapable of thinking outside your Blairite box and are wholly stuck upon outdated Blairite terminology. You struggle to understand differing views without assuming they are extremist, and thus far seem wholly incapable of understanding where anyone else is coming from unless they broadly agree with you in advance. There is no give and take which results in everyone else butting heads with you instead of a reasonable give and take debate. I am quite capable of acknowledging some of the flaws under Corbyn, certain policy errors that were made, and so on, whilst acknowledging some of the good aspects under New Labour and Blair. But your constant hostility and failure to understand me and where I am coming from, and insistence upon mislabelling me, does not invoke any great willingness to concede points from me and just engenders more hostility. Debating in a manner calculated to get my back up will never result in anything remotely resembling a reasonable debate. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2023 9:02:46 GMT
Says the man who actually voted Tory in 2017! Lol Your deviation doesn't alter the reality of history If people like you had the freedom of mind I have, we wouldn't have had a Hairbrained leader of the Labour party and would very likely won the election 2019. Starmer's policy on the EU which Corbyn rashly gave in to is one of the main reasons we lost! |
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Post by see2 on Jan 11, 2023 9:05:56 GMT
Your deviation doesn't alter the reality of history If people like you had the freedom of mind I have, we wouldn't have had a Hairbrained leader of the Labour party and would very likely won the election 2019. Starmer's policy on the EU which Corbyn rashly gave in to is one of the main reasons we lost! In your opinion, as you ignore the point made. I'd like to see you prove your claim. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 11, 2023 10:05:25 GMT
Get a room, you two😁
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Post by jonksy on Jan 11, 2023 11:38:33 GMT
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Post by see2 on Jan 11, 2023 13:58:02 GMT
Your deviation doesn't alter the reality of history If people like you had the freedom of mind I have, we wouldn't have had a Hairbrained leader of the Labour party and would very likely won the election 2019. One thing you most certainly have not displayed on this forum is freedom of mind. You wouldn't recognise freedom of mind even if it bit you on the arse as you lifted yourself out of your limited thinking little left-wing box. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2023 18:46:04 GMT
Starmer's policy on the EU which Corbyn rashly gave in to is one of the main reasons we lost! In your opinion, as you ignore the point made. I'd like to see you prove your claim. I'd like to see you prove most of yours so there we are. I know that out on the doorstep in 2019 I kept encountering people of a certain age who were deserting us over our perceived attempts to stymie Brexit. The attempt to force a second referendum was seen as an attempt to reverse and stop Brexit, and went down like a lead balloon with those who'd voted Brexit, including many of our former voters. If you want to deny that reality where is your evidence. You seldom offer any. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2023 18:50:38 GMT
One thing you most certainly have not displayed on this forum is freedom of mind. You wouldn't recognise freedom of mind even if it bit you on the arse as you lifted yourself out of your limited thinking little left-wing box. Predictably boring as ever |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 11, 2023 19:25:16 GMT
Perhaps you might consider not mentioning your feelings on New Labour and Tony Blair where they are not directly relevant to the subject. It must be tiresome for you to see Corbyn continuously referred to in the same way. I mention it whenever I feel it is relevant, as do others with Corbyn. But I am not any so called Corbynista in the sense that he is not the reason I joined the party nor the reason I left and I can acknowledge some of his flaws as a leader. People tend to assume that anyone on the left is some sort of Corbyn groupie. I am not. The problem between See 2 and I is not what I choose to discuss - I do not after all have the same problem with you and we manage to respect each other - but the abject failure of him to be able to understand where I am coming from as you seem to be able to do, and his insistence upon mislabelling me coupled with arrogance. This latter got my hackles up from the start. I think you would agree based upon your own experience with me that when people debate reasonably with me and acknowledge where I am coming from even if they disagree I tend to reciprocate. But on any politics forums I would tend to discuss those things I feel most strongly about and that includes what I see as the failings and betrayals of New Labour and Tony Blair. And my experience inside the party of the hostility and dirty tricks from such people have brought that into sharp focus for me. So apologies but it is going to be one of my main points of criticism for a while. But I talk about it because I feel I want to and because I think it is important. I don't do it to annoy you and apologise if it does Fair do's. Perhaps you could try to depersonalise your criticism. Criticise New labour without calling personal names "Your hero worship of New Labour is quite a spectacle to behold" That aside I would like to learn more about your position. Not Corbynite but very left wing. Interesting stuff among the crappy name calling that pervades the forum. |
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