|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 10, 2023 11:43:13 GMT
I'm surprised you need to ask that - it is quite obvious after all. Both England and Scotland have the same model of healthcare - but are run by parties from different parts of the political spectrum. The end result is that it doesn't matter who is in charge as their respective performances are almost identical. So you claim that simply changing the party in charge will make a heap of difference is about as valid and as sensible as your claim that under Labour the NHS was so good nobody needed insurance..  And of course both countries have suffered from the international financial meltdown that made rubbish of previous contracts drawn up. A fact that is conveniently ignored as you persist in your need to shift the blame onto the "model of health care". (which is in need of serious improvement). I would be interested to know what attempts during the last 13 years of Tory government have been made to improve matters? All countries in Europe suffered - but the UK has now arguably the worst health system in Europe. |
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Jan 10, 2023 14:13:13 GMT
I'm surprised you need to ask that - it is quite obvious after all. Both England and Scotland have the same model of healthcare - but are run by parties from different parts of the political spectrum. The end result is that it doesn't matter who is in charge as their respective performances are almost identical. So you claim that simply changing the party in charge will make a heap of difference is about as valid and as sensible as your claim that under Labour the NHS was so good nobody needed insurance.. And of course both countries have suffered from the international financial meltdown that made rubbish of previous contracts drawn up. A fact that is conveniently ignored as you persist in your need to shift the blame onto the "model of health care". (which is in need of serious improvement). I would be interested to know what attempts during the last 13 years of Tory government have been made to improve matters? Tories in power for 13 years, now doesn't that tell you something about Labour
Maybe not how good the Tories are, but how bad Labour are.
13 years of the Tories must be one of the longest serving governments we have had, thanks to Labour lol  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 14:26:55 GMT
And of course both countries have suffered from the international financial meltdown that made rubbish of previous contracts drawn up. A fact that is conveniently ignored as you persist in your need to shift the blame onto the "model of health care". (which is in need of serious improvement). I would be interested to know what attempts during the last 13 years of Tory government have been made to improve matters? Tories in power for 13 years, now doesn't that tell you something about Labour
Maybe not how good the Tories are, but how bad Labour are.
13 years of the Tories must be one of the longest serving governments we have had, thanks to Labour lol Labour was indeed it's own worst enemy due to Blairites undermining it from within and forcing an unpopular position on Brexit. But any intelligent person knows that one of the largest voting blocs out there is the idiot bloc, and the Tories have been successful in cornering it in recent years. It takes time for the stupid to wake up to reality but many of them finally appear to be now. It is a typically British tragedy that the only ones standing in the wings to take over are Starmer's useless crew who look like they are winning over some of the idiot vote on the basis of the Tories being so obviously hopelessly crap. You don't need an IQ in treble fingers to be able to work that out now. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 10, 2023 15:27:14 GMT
And of course both countries have suffered from the international financial meltdown that made rubbish of previous contracts drawn up. A fact that is conveniently ignored as you persist in your need to shift the blame onto the "model of health care". (which is in need of serious improvement). I would be interested to know what attempts during the last 13 years of Tory government have been made to improve matters? Tories in power for 13 years, now doesn't that tell you something about Labour Maybe not how good the Tories are, but how bad Labour are. 13 years of the Tories must be one of the longest serving governments we have had, thanks to Labour lol New Labour kept the Tories out of office for 13 years, the longest period they were ever out of office. New Labour was killed off by lies, insinuated lies and the Int. Fin. Meltdown. IFM. Old Labour are quite experienced at being kept out of office. The challenge now is whether or not Starmer can regain the Moderate position held by New Labour. But be in no doubt, the Tories are shit scarred of that happening so expect more lies, insinuated lies and any amount of dirty tricks by the Tory propaganda machine and its supporters. |
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Jan 10, 2023 15:37:36 GMT
Tories in power for 13 years, now doesn't that tell you something about Labour Maybe not how good the Tories are, but how bad Labour are. 13 years of the Tories must be one of the longest serving governments we have had, thanks to Labour lol New Labour kept the Tories out of office for 13 years, the longest period they were ever out of office. New Labour was killed off by lies, insinuated lies and the Int. Fin. Meltdown. IFM. Old Labour are quite experienced at being kept out of office. The challenge now is whether or not Starmer can regain the Moderate position held by New Labour. But be in no doubt, the Tories are shit scarred of that happening so expect more lies, insinuated lies and any amount of dirty tricks by the Tory propaganda machine and its supporters. The Tories have at least another year if not two, so that will make it 15 years in office.
Stop making excuses for how bad Labour are, Corbyn set in the rot, and it's still rotting away.
The only dirty tricks are Labour, they used Partygate to get rid of Johnson, a relentless witch hunt, while Starmer used his influence to bury beergate.
Now Labour are using the Unions and strikes to bring down the government.
Labour can not come up with any policies, they don't have a policy to their name, so they resort to dirty tricks, they will not be able to get in to office honestly, they realise that now.
Starmer doesn't know if he's on foot or horseback, he's a disaster.
|
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 10, 2023 15:52:19 GMT
And of course both countries have suffered from the international financial meltdown that made rubbish of previous contracts drawn up. A fact that is conveniently ignored as you persist in your need to shift the blame onto the "model of health care". (which is in need of serious improvement). I would be interested to know what attempts during the last 13 years of Tory government have been made to improve matters? All countries in Europe suffered - but the UK has now arguably the worst health system in Europe. So how does that excuse the Tories who have been in office for 12 years? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 16:00:03 GMT
Tories in power for 13 years, now doesn't that tell you something about Labour Maybe not how good the Tories are, but how bad Labour are. 13 years of the Tories must be one of the longest serving governments we have had, thanks to Labour lol New Labour kept the Tories out of office for 13 years, the longest period they were ever out of office. New Labour was killed off by lies, insinuated lies and the Int. Fin. Meltdown. IFM. Old Labour are quite experienced at being kept out of office. The challenge now is whether or not Starmer can regain the Moderate position held by New Labour. But be in no doubt, the Tories are shit scarred of that happening so expect more lies, insinuated lies and any amount of dirty tricks by the Tory propaganda machine and its supporters. Starmer aims to be anything but moderate, just like Blair. An establishment stooge and shill for the wealthy elites. He'll be sucking up to Murdoch before very long. You won't have to vote Tory like you did in 2017. You'll be able to get much the same thing from Labour |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 16:01:51 GMT
And of course both countries have suffered from the international financial meltdown that made rubbish of previous contracts drawn up. A fact that is conveniently ignored as you persist in your need to shift the blame onto the "model of health care". (which is in need of serious improvement). I would be interested to know what attempts during the last 13 years of Tory government have been made to improve matters? All countries in Europe suffered - but the UK has now arguably the worst health system in Europe. It never used to be. 13 years of your lot has done that. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 10, 2023 16:03:41 GMT
New Labour kept the Tories out of office for 13 years, the longest period they were ever out of office. New Labour was killed off by lies, insinuated lies and the Int. Fin. Meltdown. IFM. Old Labour are quite experienced at being kept out of office. The challenge now is whether or not Starmer can regain the Moderate position held by New Labour. But be in no doubt, the Tories are shit scarred of that happening so expect more lies, insinuated lies and any amount of dirty tricks by the Tory propaganda machine and its supporters. The Tories have at least another year if not two, so that will make it 15 years in office.
Stop making excuses for how bad Labour are, Corbyn set in the rot, and it's still rotting away.
The only dirty tricks are Labour, they used Partygate to get rid of Johnson, a relentless witch hunt, while Starmer used his influence to bury beergate.
Now Labour are using the Unions and strikes to bring down the government.
Labour can not come up with any policies, they don't have a policy to their name, so they resort to dirty tricks, they will not be able to get in to office honestly, they realise that now.
Starmer doesn't know if he's on foot or horseback, he's a disaster.
1. Not unusual for Old Labour. 2. I am Center-Left NOT left wing. I do not make excuses for Old Labour and never have done. 3. A silly misinformed lie. Boris got it wrong, end of. 4. Another silly misinformed lie. 5. You will get more than enough policies when the time is right. Dirty tricks are in imbedded in the Tory DNA, not so in New Labour DNA and not even needed. 6. I'm not impressed by your flighty opinions. Time will tell just how good or bad Starmer is. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 10, 2023 16:08:47 GMT
New Labour kept the Tories out of office for 13 years, the longest period they were ever out of office. New Labour was killed off by lies, insinuated lies and the Int. Fin. Meltdown. IFM. Old Labour are quite experienced at being kept out of office. The challenge now is whether or not Starmer can regain the Moderate position held by New Labour. But be in no doubt, the Tories are shit scarred of that happening so expect more lies, insinuated lies and any amount of dirty tricks by the Tory propaganda machine and its supporters. Starmer aims to be anything but moderate, just like Blair. An establishment stooge and shill for the wealthy elites. He'll be sucking up to Murdoch before very long. You won't have to vote Tory like you did in 2017. You'll be able to get much the same thing from Labour I am not impressed by your extreme rhetoric, because it is the product of your extreme bias. Incidentally it was Murdoch who was sucking up to NL. Murdoch recognised a winner when he saw one. That was good move for his newspapers. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 10, 2023 16:13:24 GMT
All countries in Europe suffered - but the UK has now arguably the worst health system in Europe. It never used to be. 13 years of your lot has done that. It was never as good as the best in Europe - it always was more hype than substance. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2023 16:13:39 GMT
The Tories have at least another year if not two, so that will make it 15 years in office.
Stop making excuses for how bad Labour are, Corbyn set in the rot, and it's still rotting away.
The only dirty tricks are Labour, they used Partygate to get rid of Johnson, a relentless witch hunt, while Starmer used his influence to bury beergate.
Now Labour are using the Unions and strikes to bring down the government.
Labour can not come up with any policies, they don't have a policy to their name, so they resort to dirty tricks, they will not be able to get in to office honestly, they realise that now.
Starmer doesn't know if he's on foot or horseback, he's a disaster.
1. Not unusual for Old Labour. 2. I am Center-Left NOT left wing. I do not make excuses for Old Labour and never have done. 3. A silly misinformed lie. Boris got it wrong, end of. 4. Another silly misinformed lie. 5. You will get more than enough policies when the time is right. Dirty tricks are in imbedded in the Tory DNA, not so in New Labour DNA and not even needed. 6. I'm not impressed by your flighty opinions. Time will tell just how good or bad Starmer is. Your hero worship of New Labour is quite a spectacle to behold, as is your constant outdated terminology. And they were always just as prone to dirty tricks as the Tories. And you deny being left but claim to be centre left which surely is itself left if less so than others? Fact is you are actually centre right. You must be to have actually voted Tory in 2017. No one who honestly includes the word "left" in their self description would ever vote Tory. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 10, 2023 16:44:29 GMT
It never used to be. 13 years of your lot has done that. It was never as good as the best in Europe - it always was more hype than substance. NL's promise on the NHS was to bring the financial clout up to the average of most other countries. The last I saw was a list of the spends of about 20 countries with the UK almost in the middle. That was then, don't know how we fair today. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Jan 10, 2023 16:51:45 GMT
1. Not unusual for Old Labour. 2. I am Center-Left NOT left wing. I do not make excuses for Old Labour and never have done. 3. A silly misinformed lie. Boris got it wrong, end of. 4. Another silly misinformed lie. 5. You will get more than enough policies when the time is right. Dirty tricks are in imbedded in the Tory DNA, not so in New Labour DNA and not even needed. 6. I'm not impressed by your flighty opinions. Time will tell just how good or bad Starmer is. Your hero worship of New Labour is quite a spectacle to behold, as is your constant outdated terminology. And they were always just as prone to dirty tricks as the Tories. And you deny being left but claim to be centre left which surely is itself left if less so than others? Fact is you are actually centre right. You must be to have actually voted Tory in 2017. No one who honestly includes the word "left" in their self description would ever vote Tory. Because of your total bias you are in no position to judge me, which is why I take such posts ^^^ to be just you letting off steam. Just remember that each time people like yourself insisting on being victory fodder for the Tories, you let working people down. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 10, 2023 17:59:33 GMT
It was never as good as the best in Europe - it always was more hype than substance. NL's promise on the NHS was to bring the financial clout up to the average of most other countries. The last I saw was a list of the spends of about 20 countries with the UK almost in the middle. That was then, don't know how we fair today. It's not only how much you spend, it is what you spend it on. This chart is quite instructive when it comes to comparisons with other countries for the number of Doctors and Nurses in Hospitals. Seems the NHS is rather more keen on ancillary staff than medical staff when compared with other systems in Europe.  |
|
