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Post by Pacifico on Dec 15, 2022 11:25:00 GMT
Sounds simple - but people do not want more housebuilding.  You are right Pacifico, some people (those who have homes) don't want anymore built, they also want less people coming in, less tax, but still all the latest health treatments and drugs that keep them alive into their Nineties. I think the old struggle with change, but still somehow want the benefits. You would struggle to sell anyone on the benefits of mass immigration. |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 15, 2022 12:56:51 GMT
Sounds simple - but people do not want more housebuilding. You are right Pacifico, some people (those who have homes) don't want anymore built, they also want less people coming in, less tax, but still all the latest health treatments and drugs that keep them alive into their Nineties. I think the old struggle with change, but still somehow want the benefits. The change they struggle with, especially in some areas, is they can't talk to many people because neither understands the other. The benefits are what they contributed to throughout their working life and are not demanded by pensioners but meted out by government. As for housebuilding, it isn't just homeowners who don't want any more house building, it's people who see accommodation being given to migrant chancers and some migrant criminals, whether it's houses or hotels. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 15, 2022 13:11:16 GMT
Anyone who admits that there is a housing crisis in the UK and at the same time advocates high or unlimited immigration needs a head shake.
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Post by Handyman on Dec 15, 2022 13:16:46 GMT
Likewise high pension increases.....or are there different rules where you are concerned? Pay rises are well below inflation so are clearly not driving it. Expecting people not to get rises in line with inflation is expecting the workforce to get poorer to help the economy. But what the hell is the economy for if not the good of the people? Or is it only pensioners who count?Well us poor old buggers shouldn't tak the brunt from the younger generation. Many of us worked our bollocks off and made sacrifices to provide for our retirement. I agree people of our age have worked far longer than some much younger and paid all our dues , gone without to pay mortgages, paid into pension funds not just the State pension to provide for ourselves |
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Post by Handyman on Dec 15, 2022 13:19:33 GMT
Anyone who admits that there is a housing crisis in the UK and at the same time advocates high or unlimited immigration needs a head shake. Yes cannot see the wood for the trees |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2022 16:12:52 GMT
Wow I missed that, when did Westminster send Putin into the Ukraine? When they created the maiden, when they decided to expand the EU up to his borders and some may say beyond, when globalists get over cocky perhaps. Next question,. I guess you were thinking you wouldn't get an answer, welcome to the new normal. Wow the powers of Westminster just grow and grow, now they expanded the EU. How did they make all those countries ask to join the EU and the EU accept them. I just had no idea how great Great Britain was. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2022 16:17:41 GMT
You are right Pacifico, some people (those who have homes) don't want anymore built, they also want less people coming in, less tax, but still all the latest health treatments and drugs that keep them alive into their Nineties. I think the old struggle with change, but still somehow want the benefits. You would struggle to sell anyone on the benefits of mass immigration. Yes you wanted the money of an expanding population but not the expanding population. Just as you wanted a nice place of your own but not for others. I'm never sure whether you just play at debate on here. I think so, but I'm sort of intrigued how much of what you say you is playing and how much just ill thought through wishful thinking. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2022 16:22:08 GMT
You are right Pacifico, some people (those who have homes) don't want anymore built, they also want less people coming in, less tax, but still all the latest health treatments and drugs that keep them alive into their Nineties. I think the old struggle with change, but still somehow want the benefits. The change they struggle with, especially in some areas, is they can't talk to many people because neither understands the other. The benefits are what they contributed to throughout their working life and are not demanded by pensioners but meted out by government. As for housebuilding, it isn't just homeowners who don't want any more house building, it's people who see accommodation being given to migrant chancers and some migrant criminals, whether it's houses or hotels. Migrant criminals are just a distraction, there is a massive shortage of houses for ordinary people and freeing up every one allocated to a migrant criminal would not scratch the surface. The migrant problem needs solving, but its not the cause of the housing problem. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 15, 2022 16:24:47 GMT
Nonsense, because no one forces super power Russia or dictator Putin to do anything they do not want to do. Its not nonsense because he has attacked Ukraine and the background was for all to see. Wrong, your inference is that Putin was forced to interfere inside the Ukraine (the Maiden demonstrations etc.) The only reason Putin invaded Ukraine was because he wanted to, based upon his beliefs that the Ukraine was part of Russia, which was a lie. Just like his lie when he said he would not invade the Ukraine. |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 15, 2022 16:26:24 GMT
The change they struggle with, especially in some areas, is they can't talk to many people because neither understands the other. The benefits are what they contributed to throughout their working life and are not demanded by pensioners but meted out by government. As for housebuilding, it isn't just homeowners who don't want any more house building, it's people who see accommodation being given to migrant chancers and some migrant criminals, whether it's houses or hotels. Migrant criminals are just a distraction, there is a massive shortage of houses for ordinary people and freeing up every one allocated to a migrant criminal would not scratch the surface. The migrant problem needs solving, but its not the cause of the housing problem. I'm well aware of the cause of the housing problem, immigration is a serious one. I'm also aware of how to solve it and it isn't by building high priced detached properties. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2022 16:28:45 GMT
Anyone who admits that there is a housing crisis in the UK and at the same time advocates high or unlimited immigration needs a head shake. Agreed, but I'm against immigration on the basis this small island has run out of space. I've been trying to convince people that no government can ever stop immigration unless they raise taxes to cover the rolling shortfall it would create. We saw a glimpse of that shortfall when GDP stalled after Brexit. Now we get another glimpse as our workforce shrinks post Covid and the economy shrinks with it. When we depend on it growing every year to pay for the ever larger number of pensioners and the ever increasing and expensive ways we find to keep them alive longer. But no one wants to discuss this elephant in the room so they keep pointing to other things to distract. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 15, 2022 17:07:29 GMT
Anyone who admits that there is a housing crisis in the UK and at the same time advocates high or unlimited immigration needs a head shake. Agreed, but I'm against immigration on the basis this small island has run out of space. I've been trying to convince people that no government can ever stop immigration unless they raise taxes to cover the rolling shortfall it would create. We saw a glimpse of that shortfall when GDP stalled after Brexit. Now we get another glimpse as our workforce shrinks post Covid and the economy shrinks with it. When we depend on it growing every year to pay for the ever larger number of pensioners and the ever increasing and expensive ways we find to keep them alive longer. But no one wants to discuss this elephant in the room so they keep pointing to other things to distract. If we import permanent cheap Labour from abroad then we are only kicking the pensioner can down the road. Those migrants will be drawing a pension eventually. The answer lies with qualifying for a pension at a later date and felicitating a kind of halfway house pension/ part time working for older people who can’t work full time before pension age , far more vocational training and more use of modern technology . We probably will have to use migrant Labour but it should be very much controlled to fit the needs of the country . |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 15, 2022 17:27:22 GMT
You would struggle to sell anyone on the benefits of mass immigration. Yes you wanted the money of an expanding population but not the expanding population. Just as you wanted a nice place of your own but not for others. I'm never sure whether you just play at debate on here. I think so, but I'm sort of intrigued how much of what you say you is playing and how much just ill thought through wishful thinking. LOL - nobody got any money out of expanding the population. Mass immigration led to a higher GDP just because you expanded the economy - what it didn't do was lead to higher growth so that GDP per capita remained the same - hence adding 10 million people to the population benefitted nobody. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2022 17:49:06 GMT
Agreed, but I'm against immigration on the basis this small island has run out of space. I've been trying to convince people that no government can ever stop immigration unless they raise taxes to cover the rolling shortfall it would create. We saw a glimpse of that shortfall when GDP stalled after Brexit. Now we get another glimpse as our workforce shrinks post Covid and the economy shrinks with it. When we depend on it growing every year to pay for the ever larger number of pensioners and the ever increasing and expensive ways we find to keep them alive longer. But no one wants to discuss this elephant in the room so they keep pointing to other things to distract. If we import permanent cheap Labour from abroad then we are only kicking the pensioner can down the road. Those migrants will be drawing a pension eventually. The answer lies with qualifying for a pension at a later date and felicitating a kind of halfway house pension/ part time working for older people who can’t work full time before pension age , far more vocational training and more use of modern technology . We probably will have to use migrant Labour but it should be very much controlled to fit the needs of the country . Its not cheap labour, its just labour, but yes I agree its the reason we have to import more every year. We have been raising the pension age, but at this time its not helping much because many of those wishing to retire are not reliant on the state pension so they stop working (paying tax) at 60 anyway. (Though I do like your ideas) And again I agree with the idea of migrant labour bought in for limited time periods with no rights to stay. On your idea about using technology. Yes but you would need to find a way to tax the production from this automation and technology. One of the other issues we currently have is that technology is putting more and more profit into the hands of ever fewer people. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2022 17:50:06 GMT
Yes you wanted the money of an expanding population but not the expanding population. Just as you wanted a nice place of your own but not for others. I'm never sure whether you just play at debate on here. I think so, but I'm sort of intrigued how much of what you say you is playing and how much just ill thought through wishful thinking. LOL - nobody got any money out of expanding the population. Mass immigration led to a higher GDP just because you expanded the economy - what it didn't do was lead to higher growth so that GDP per capita remained the same - hence adding 10 million people to the population benefitted nobody. So you keep saying despite having it explained to you numerous times. |
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