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Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2022 20:38:28 GMT
Subconscious bias is learnt as we grow up, it can be learnt openly but is also learnt subliminally i.e. unknowingly learnt. We are back again to genes. Most animals recognise kin, and the levels of kinship, as an inbuilt ability and the tendency is to favour those kin in terms of aid and consideration. This aspect of an instinct is no doubt reinforced by learning but it is a genetic trait in the first instance and no amount of education or different programming from birth will eliminate it. NO WE ARE NOT. Fear is the driver and our DNA (all animal DNA) does hard wire each individual animal to always be Wary of danger, and to learn what is dangerous and what is not. If a human child is raised in a society where humans are violent to humans on a daily basis then that child will grow up with a fear of humans. It is known that monkey's living in an isolated area where they have never been hunted by or haven't even seen a human will show a curiosity of humans if humans come to their area, if they have been hunted by man they will show a fear of man. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2022 20:43:17 GMT
I don't see it as a sinister aspect of the human mind or as a source of shame, so I don't fully understand your use of that description. So why should it need to be addressed? You are intelligent enough to know that it is being associated with casual and subtle racism. You seem to be either denying this or disassociating yourself from it. I spend my time trying to explain it. For me it is the natural workings of the Mind, the sensory system doing what it is designed to do. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2022 20:50:46 GMT
I don't get how this unconscious bias works? Black people want to be called 'black people', not coloured not brown, but black. Fair enough, but why is everything relating to the word 'black' is racist? Ba Ba 'black sheep', racist? blackboard, racist? black bin liners, racist? How the fuck do we know when we can use the word 'black' without being labeled a racist, if it's not the right black. I guess it's all part of the brainwashing. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 20, 2022 20:54:59 GMT
We are back again to genes. Most animals recognise kin, and the levels of kinship, as an inbuilt ability and the tendency is to favour those kin in terms of aid and consideration. This aspect of an instinct is no doubt reinforced by learning but it is a genetic trait in the first instance and no amount of education or different programming from birth will eliminate it. NO WE ARE NOT. Fear is the driver and our DNA (all animal DNA) does hard wire each individual animal to always be Wary of danger, and to learn what is dangerous and what is not. If a human child is raised in a society where humans are violent to humans on a daily basis then that child will grow up with a fear of humans. It is known that monkey's living in an isolated area where they have never been hunted by or haven't even seen a human will show a curiosity of humans if humans come to their area, if they have been hunted by man they will show a fear of man. That is fear of predation which must be a learned fear as all experiences are different. I was referring to the affinity of all animals to kin and kinship. That requires a degree of calculation that most animals seem to cope with quite easily as an instinct. Unconscious bias is basically the affinity for kin in operation and genes will always guide those within whom they exist to help those genes survive, even in others. This is natural selection I agree it is subconscious bias but I would suggest we are all born with that bias to greater or lesser degrees and education and upbringing will temper it or enhance it but it is largely a natural trait not specifically a learned one. |
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Post by buccaneer on Dec 20, 2022 21:09:22 GMT
Of course. But it assumes everyone in a specific group has some amount of unconscious bias. There is only one target group this 'training' is aimed at. Complete poppycock made up to defend unconscious bias as some supposed inalienable right to ruin others lives ^ Go on see if you can show us some evidence of provenance that 'it assumes everyone in a specific group has some amount of unconscious bias'You don't know what you are talking about. Having an alleged unconscious bias doesn't mean having absolute right to "ruin" others' lives. Lol. Who or what is 'unconscious bias' aimed at? If you have ever studied CRT at University you will know the target audience for this subject is White people and their alleged privilege. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 20, 2022 21:17:25 GMT
So why should it need to be addressed? You are intelligent enough to know that it is being associated with casual and subtle racism. You seem to be either denying this or disassociating yourself from it. I spend my time trying to explain it. For me it is the natural workings of the Mind, the sensory system doing what it is designed to do. So it should be encouraged… |
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Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2022 21:49:25 GMT
NO WE ARE NOT. Fear is the driver and our DNA (all animal DNA) does hard wire each individual animal to always be Wary of danger, and to learn what is dangerous and what is not. If a human child is raised in a society where humans are violent to humans on a daily basis then that child will grow up with a fear of humans. It is known that monkey's living in an isolated area where they have never been hunted by or haven't even seen a human will show a curiosity of humans if humans come to their area, if they have been hunted by man they will show a fear of man. That is fear of predation which must be a learned fear as all experiences are different. I was referring to the affinity of all animals to kin and kinship. That requires a degree of calculation that most animals seem to cope with quite easily as an instinct. It is the result of being born, fed and raised in one safe environment. A human that saves a lion pups life and becomes a lifelong friend of that lion is an example of how things work. Vets are aware that some animals they save should not be allowed to become friendly with those who are helping it, as this could work against them once they are returned to the wilds. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2022 21:51:10 GMT
I spend my time trying to explain it. For me it is the natural workings of the Mind, the sensory system doing what it is designed to do. So it should be encouraged… Recognition of how the mind works should be encouraged. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 20, 2022 22:00:50 GMT
That is fear of predation which must be a learned fear as all experiences are different. I was referring to the affinity of all animals to kin and kinship. That requires a degree of calculation that most animals seem to cope with quite easily as an instinct. It is the result of being born, fed and raised in one safe environment. It happens with all animals irrespective of their environmental upbringing. Predation is a risk for a herd and the specific dangers must be learned, the looking after others in the herd is not specifically a learned instinct and the calculation of relatedness is often shown to be considered, in a subconscious way. It is a balance of risk to oneself and the degree of relatedness of the individual needing help. That is not a learned calculation, how can it be, it is an innate capability at the subconscious level. Take Wildebeeste rescuing a calf from lions, it is the kin of the calf that take the risks even though the whole herd is there although there is a complication that some may stand back to take advantage of others protection of kin. If only it was easy. EDIT Just saw your edit. I am not excluding learned events, I am saying that genes are the driving force of behaviour with learning complementing what is there already. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 20, 2022 22:09:19 GMT
So it should be encouraged… Recognition of how the mind works should be encouraged. That isn’t what I said . |
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Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2022 22:17:34 GMT
It is the result of being born, fed and raised in one safe environment. It happens with all animals irrespective of their environmental upbringing. Predation is a risk for a herd and the specific dangers must be learned, the looking after others in the herd is not specifically a learned instinct and the calculation of relatedness is often shown to be considered, in a subconscious way. It is a balance of risk to oneself and the degree of relatedness of the individual needing help. That is not a learned calculation, how can it be, it is an innate capability at the subconscious level. Take Wildebeeste rescuing a calf from lions, it is the kin of the calf that take the risks even though the whole herd is there although there is a complication that some may stand back to take advantage of others protection of kin. If only it was easy. EDIT Just saw your edit. I am not excluding learned events, I am saying that genes are the driving force of behaviour with learning complementing what is there already. Our DNA gives us a pair of eyes, it doesn't determine what we look at or see. The mind and brain takes in the formation we see, that is our gift from DNA. Ditto with the rest of our senses. If we see and hear safety along with food and protection then that is what keeps the pack or the family together. NOT DNA imposed, safety and survival is the controller. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2022 22:30:47 GMT
Recognition of how the mind works should be encouraged. That isn’t what I said . I know. But if you were implying that Subconscious Bias should be encouraged, regardless, then I would say no. Because subconscious bias can be either negative or positive. Good or Bad. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 20, 2022 22:40:27 GMT
It happens with all animals irrespective of their environmental upbringing. Predation is a risk for a herd and the specific dangers must be learned, the looking after others in the herd is not specifically a learned instinct and the calculation of relatedness is often shown to be considered, in a subconscious way. It is a balance of risk to oneself and the degree of relatedness of the individual needing help. That is not a learned calculation, how can it be, it is an innate capability at the subconscious level. Take Wildebeeste rescuing a calf from lions, it is the kin of the calf that take the risks even though the whole herd is there although there is a complication that some may stand back to take advantage of others protection of kin. If only it was easy. EDIT Just saw your edit. I am not excluding learned events, I am saying that genes are the driving force of behaviour with learning complementing what is there already. Our DNA gives us a pair of eyes, it doesn't determine what we look at or see. The mind and brain takes in the formation we see, that is our gift from DNA. Ditto with the rest of our senses. If we see and hear safety along with food and protection then that is what keeps the pack or the family together. NOT DNA imposed, safety and survival is the controller. DNA gives us everything it can to help us survive. That includes behavioural traits. We can return to the Hawk Dove game and certain Australian Finches where the balance of the Hawk behaviour finches and to the Doves was accurately predicted using the Hawk/Dove game. DNA controlled the aggressive behaviour of the red headed finches whereas the black headed were more passive. DNA is not a passive constructor of the body it is a director of that body but gives it free rein tolearn and behave in teh environment it finds itself and it is to that environment that the DNA has designed the body and given it behaviours to meet the needs of survival and reproduction. You do not learn what you find attractive you are guided by evolution and what your DNA says. |
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Post by Steve on Dec 20, 2022 23:12:47 GMT
Broad brushism ^ Never a good look Don't look daft Steve answer a simple question.
When is black not black?
Dunno, how irrelevant a question But then I'm smart enough to see that whereas you bitterly false posted that all black people think the same with that broad brush 'Black people want to be called 'black people', not coloured not brown, but black.' followed by inane ranting. And now you're bitching because your stupidity was fairly pointed out. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2022 23:37:38 GMT
Our DNA gives us a pair of eyes, it doesn't determine what we look at or see. The mind and brain takes in the formation we see, that is our gift from DNA. Ditto with the rest of our senses. If we see and hear safety along with food and protection then that is what keeps the pack or the family together. NOT DNA imposed, safety and survival is the controller. DNA gives us everything it can to help us survive. That includes behavioural traits. We can return to the Hawk Dove game and certain Australian Finches where the balance of the Hawk behaviour finches and to the Doves was accurately predicted using the Hawk/Dove game. DNA controlled the aggressive behaviour of the red headed finches whereas the black headed were more passive. DNA is not a passive constructor of the body it is a director of that body but gives it free rein tolearn and behave in teh environment it finds itself and it is to that environment that the DNA has designed the body and given it behaviours to meet the needs of survival and reproduction. You do not learn what you find attractive you are guided by evolution and what your DNA says. I have posted previously on DNA that there are limited things that are innate to the system passed on by DNA, things like bodily functions, heartbeat and other organs that function on their own etc. Being wary is from the DNA, the actions that come from being wary that ARE ALL LEARNED. Because you have convinced yourself through your opinions and your best logic, that DNA itself is active in Human behaviour, when DNA is actually just the blueprint not the controller. You are stuck, I can't help you so I will not be replying to any further posts on DNA by yourself. |
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