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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 16, 2024 14:09:03 GMT
Here is a link to the full text of the 'Maastricht Treaty' or more correctly The Treaty on European Union, signed in 1992 by John Major (and the Queen) on behalf of the UK. Can you point out where it mentions that agreeing to build high-speed rail lines to EU specifications was a condition for John Major signing the treaty? That actually seems a bit back arseward anyway - perhaps you meant to write it was a condition for Major to be allowed to sign the treaty.
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2024 14:23:43 GMT
Here is a link to the full text of the 'Maastricht Treaty' or more correctly The Treaty on European Union, signed in 1992 by John Major (and the Queen) on behalf of the UK. Can you point out where it mentions that agreeing to build high-speed rail lines to EU specifications was a condition for John Major signing the treaty? That actually seems a bit back arseward anyway - perhaps you meant to write it was a condition for Major to be allowed to sign the treaty.
Jeez, you can be hard work sometimes Dan. The Maastricht Treaty in 1992 introduced the requirement of the creation of a common market in the European Union. This implied the need for an interoperable transport system, without barriers at borders between EU member States, while the Schengen Treaty effectively removed internal borders in a large part of the EU. Based on this legal framework, the EU developed the concept of Trans-European Networks for Transport (TEN-T), for Energy (TEN-E) and Telecommunication (eTEN). unece.org/DAM/trans/main/ter/terdocs/TER_High-Speed_Master_Plan_Study.pdfThe UK was legally bound to adopt the EU vision of high speed rail the moment John Major signed Maastricht. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 16, 2024 14:42:31 GMT
But that's a UN 'study' not something from the EU. It is concerned with designing a Trans European Rail network in Non-EU countries including Russia and Turkey.
Why are you posting such nonsense? Don't you check your own sources before posting?
And again, where in the Maastricht Treaty is there any mention of an 'EU vision' for high-speed rail that you say the UK was bound to implement? Can you show me a picture of it?
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2024 15:23:14 GMT
But that's a UN 'study' not something from the EU. It is concerned with designing a Trans European Rail network in Non-EU countries including Russia and Turkey. Why are you posting such nonsense? Don't you check your own sources before posting? And again, where in the Maastricht Treaty is there any mention of an 'EU vision' for high-speed rail that you say the UK was bound to implement? Can you show me a picture of it? Dan, do you honestly believe that post Maastricht the UK government, as an EU member state, would have or could have said to Brussels no thanks we're not interested in your vision of a pan European high speed rail network? Maps of projected EU high speed rail links are included in the link I provided, and post Maastricht they include the UK. I'm struggling to believe that you think the EU had nothing to do with high speed rail in the UK. Incredible. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 16, 2024 15:27:55 GMT
Dan, do you honestly believe that post Maastricht the UK government, as an EU member state, would have or could have said to Brussels no thanks we're not interested in your vision of a pan European high speed rail network? Maps of projected EU high speed rail links are included in the link I provided, and post Maastricht they include the UK. I'm struggling to believe that you think the EU had nothing to do with high speed rail in the UK. Incredible. Which link?
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2024 15:44:37 GMT
Dan, do you honestly believe that post Maastricht the UK government, as an EU member state, would have or could have said to Brussels no thanks we're not interested in your vision of a pan European high speed rail network? Maps of projected EU high speed rail links are included in the link I provided, and post Maastricht they include the UK. I'm struggling to believe that you think the EU had nothing to do with high speed rail in the UK. Incredible. Which link? The second one, the link you rubbished because it's produced by the UNECE [United Nations Economic Commission for Europe] which was established to "promote economic cooperation and integration among it's member states". |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 16, 2024 15:57:20 GMT
What I want to see is an EU published map showing high-speed lines in the UK, HS2 and HS3 specifically, that you claim were imposed as a consequence of the Maastricht Treaty. The UK government doesn't appear to have been aware since they don't appear in the announcement by the DfT on the creation of HS2 Ltd in 2009. This is the map they presented; as can be seen there were no HS lines planned for the UK as of 2008. I would have thought if the government felt under some obligation to comply with an EU 'vision' they would have shown at least some red-dotted lines. But they didn't.
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2024 16:11:00 GMT
There are several maps in the link that clearly show the UK is, or was, a part of the EU TENs (Trans European Network)
And I ask again, do you honestly believe that post Maastricht, the UK government as an EU member state, would have or could have said to Brussels no thanks we're not interested in your vision of a pan European high speed rail network?
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 16, 2024 17:47:53 GMT
There are several maps in the link that clearly show the UK is, or was, a part of the EU TENs (Trans European Network) And I ask again, do you honestly believe that post Maastricht, the UK government as an EU member state, would have or could have said to Brussels no thanks we're not interested in your vision of a pan European high speed rail network? I can't answer your question since I have yet to see a picture of the EU's 'vision' for high-speed rail. And after that I'd like to see evidence that this vision was being imposed on member states.
So far you've been unable to provide either.
PS A number of maps in your UN source originate from Wikipedia, including the one labelled 'European existing and planned high-speed railway network'
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2024 17:58:09 GMT
I can't answer your question since I have yet to see a picture of the EU's 'vision' for high-speed rail. And after that I'd like to see evidence that this vision was being imposed on member states. So far you've been unable to provide either. PS A number of maps in your UN source originate from Wikipedia, including the one labelled 'European existing and planned high-speed railway network' Of course you could answer the question, what you mean is you refuse to because you know the bloody answer. For the benefit of spectators, the question Dan refuses to answer is: Do you honestly believe that from 1992 or post Maastricht, the UK as an EU member state, would have or could have said to Brussels no thanks we're not interested in your vision of a pan European high speed rail network? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 17, 2024 8:26:41 GMT
We're still waiting for proof of your earlier assertion that 'HS2 is controlled by EU not our Gov.'
So far we've had EC 96/48 which turned out to be a dud and which you have wisely decided to abandon, the Maastricht Treaty which doesn't contain a single word about high-speed rail much less place any compulsion on Britain (or any other member state) to execute an EU 'vision' of HSR, and the vision itself which appears to be as ephemeral as the promises made to voters to con them into voting leave.
Where do you find this stuff? Is there an I-Spy Book of EU Fairy-tales that all commited Brexiteers carry around and wave like Mao's Little Red Book? Pray do tell.
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