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Post by Pacifico on Nov 15, 2024 8:16:45 GMT
France manufacturing is collapsing - on the TV tonight it was Michelin closing another 2 factories, so you can see why France is falling behind the UK in manufacturing output. Which is precisely why the UK now makes more money out of manufacturing than France. totally agree with what you are saying. I think though we are coming at all this from the wrong angle. The argument isnt about comparing the uk to the rEU. The argument is why the uk , and the rEU is doing so badly compared to the United States and china. 16 years ago , the American and combined European economies were almost neck and neck. Now , the yank economy is almost 50 % bigger than the entire Eu economies combined. just been reading up on an article talking about Europes ongoing economic suicide. When I say Europe I include the uk in that. European talent fleeing to America or south east Asia. Europeans drowning in red tape. tax rates crushing small business .Compliance costs killing innovation. the list goes on. As regards to France , even president macron admits all this when comparing France , and the wider Europe to America and china... High tax , low growth , anti innovation and a regulatory culture which is creating a spiral of economic doom. Oh totally - the EU is a low growth backwater that is making the people of Europe poorer. In just 15 years the US has become twice as rich as Europe and the divergence is only increasing.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 15, 2024 8:34:11 GMT
Owned by a French and a German company, respectively.
The last civil airliner by a British company was made in 2001, and the last train was even longer ago, 1991.
They're all made by foreign companies now.
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Post by thomas on Nov 15, 2024 9:09:07 GMT
They're all made by foreign companies now.
interesting you use the word "foreign" rather than European. Is this because in terms of airbus , it was being reported as far back as two years ago , many of their suppliers were closing down operations in Europe , and moving to North America , or china? From what im reading, European manufacturing is in severe trouble due to the high energy costs , as well as everything we have mentioned above. We have Volkswagen talking about shutting plants and job losses , German economy is in a mess , France we have spoken about , and regarding airbus , wasnt some of the manufacturing already based In Canada , states and china?
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 15, 2024 9:28:09 GMT
They're all made by foreign companies now.
interesting you use the word "foreign" rather than European. That's because manufacturing activity in the UK is largely dominated by the wholly-owned subsidiaries of foreign-owned companies. Not just European, but also American, Japanese, Canadian even Indian! The Chinese haven't piled in yet but, if you believe the Baron, they're hovering in the wings.
A glance at the FTSE 100 will indicate only two British companies of any size in the capital goods manufacturing sector: BAe and RR. The others in the general manufacturing sector are overwhelmingly concentrated in the production of food, tobacco and alcoholic drinks.
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Post by thomas on Nov 15, 2024 9:39:26 GMT
interesting you use the word "foreign" rather than European. That's because manufacturing activity in the UK is largely dominated by the wholly-owned subsidiaries of foreign-owned companies. Not just European, but also American, Japanese, Canadian even Indian!
A glance at the FTSE 100 will indicate only two British companies of any size in the capital goods manufacturing sector: BAe and RR. The others in the general manufacturing sector are overwhelmingly concentrated in the production of food, tobacco and alcoholic drinks.
Again , thats a sidestep from my point. The point is the uk and Europe is increasingly in big big trouble , with North America and Asia dominating . We see this morning the bad news for labour about lack of any real growth in the economy since they came to power. The outlook is bleak. Similar for Europe. Manufacturing across Europe , not just here , is struggling massively. All your answer is , is to consistently whine about brexit , and imply we need to hang our coats on the shoogley peg of a Europe that is in crises.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 15, 2024 10:13:30 GMT
Cobblers or not, the truth of the matter is that the UK is no longer a player in those industrial sectors which produce high-value capital goods. Its largest manufacturing sector is food and beverages, a relatively low-tech sector once you take away the process machinery which is manufactured elsewhere. As for aircraft, yes its true that Rolls-Royce is a global player along with GKN GSK. But these are the only two such companies based in the UK. JCB is a relative tiddler in the construction machinery sector, ranking 9th by revenues. It is the only UK-based company in the top 50 worldwide (the EEA has 15 representatives). I'm unsure about your remarks concerning missiles and spacecraft - I'm not aware of any UK companies that are significant players in those sectors. France manufacturing is collapsing - on the TV tonight it was Michelin closing another 2 factories, so you can see why France is falling behind the UK in manufacturing output. Which is precisely why the UK now makes more money out of manufacturing than France. The UK's automotive sector - and it had one in 2019, I was employed in it - was crippled by EU manufacturer retaliation against our Brexit vote. The entire EU initiated a plan to destroy us. They made the utterly bogus claim that the UK would no longer be able to supply materials to the EU and demanded that any UK automotive sector manufacturer wishing to continue supplying an EU car maker initiate a programme AT THEIR EXPENSE of manufacturing and warehousing AGAIN AT THEIR EXPENSE a FIVE YEAR SUPPLY of every part demanded by an EU manufacturer The EU did this knowing fully almost every vehicle is redesigned every year, and parts change which is why the world adopts just in time manufacturing in which it is viewed as barking insanity to have more than three months stock not assembled, and the further insanity of twenty seven countries indulging in an automotive equivalent of airbus's flying parts around the fucking world just to placate unions and socialist governments means at any one time one months worth are on trucks being driven along EU motorways. And half way through this deliberate destruction of the productivity of UK business unchalleng d byba Tory government that did not want to leave the bloody EU and were happy to see British industry destroyed so they could tell Brixiteer Tories 'we told you so', the EU wide limp dick border security let a bunch of pix laden chi ese state agents infect the whole fucking continent with the yellow death. And the shutdown that was allowed to cause killed of anything else this country had going for it We're fucked and we've been fucked by a mix of Chinese and EU extermination We used to have an industry in which
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Post by honestjohn on Nov 15, 2024 10:15:13 GMT
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Post by thomas on Nov 15, 2024 10:24:18 GMT
France manufacturing is collapsing - on the TV tonight it was Michelin closing another 2 factories, so you can see why France is falling behind the UK in manufacturing output. Which is precisely why the UK now makes more money out of manufacturing than France. The UK's automotive sector - and it had one in 2019, I was employed in it - was crippled by EU manufacturer retaliation against our Brexit vote. The entire EU initiated a plan to destroy us. They made the utterly bogus claim that the UK would no longer be able to supply materials to the EU and demanded that any UK automotive sector manufacturer wishing to continue supplying an EU car maker initiate a programme AT THEIR EXPENSE of manufacturing and warehousing AGAIN AT THEIR EXPENSE a FIVE YEAR SUPPLY of every part demanded by an EU manufacturer I just dont know why though some people persist in this whine about brexit. It's done for the foreseeable , and there is no public or political will to rejoin. I have argued mainly because whatever the rights and wrongs of brexit , the uk cannot go back because it will look weak if it does , and be internationally laughed at , as some diminished entity crawling back . With the state of the EU economies , I am struggling to understand why anyone would want to take economic lessons in the UK from them.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 15, 2024 10:49:42 GMT
I'm not whining. I am stating what happened, as a matter of fact. The EU's motor industry cartel destroyed the UK's automotive sectorvas an act of revenge and May did fuck all about it.
There were things that might have been done but we all know why that did not come about.
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Post by thomas on Nov 15, 2024 10:52:34 GMT
I'm not whining. I am stating what happened, as a matter of fact. The EU's motor industry cartel destroyed the UK's automotive sectorvas an act of revenge and May did fuck all about it. There were things that might have been done but we all know why that did not come about. I wasnt suggesting you were whining about brexit John. You have no reason to whine , as you won the referendum. You need to read the entire thread ( I know I know if you can be bothered) to see what im getting at.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 15, 2024 12:12:21 GMT
Owned by a French and a German company, respectively.
The last civil airliner by a British company was made in 2001, and the last train was even longer ago, 1991.
They're all made by foreign companies now.
So if ownership is so important what do you put Frances (and Germanys) poor performance down to?
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 15, 2024 14:48:11 GMT
Not this hoary old chestnut yet again. From a rabid Brexiteer who insists on calling the EU the 'European Frankenstein Network'. Even Jonksy with his 'EUSSR' is not quite that demented. Well it's easy to sneer I suppose, but the fact is, and it is a fact, that High Speed Rail or the Trans-European Union Railway (TEN-R) was intended to cover the whole of the EU including the UK, HS2 was the main part of its High Speed design in Britain as was HS3. But along with other HS rail lines this, as several EU directives show, was conceived in Brussels. When John Major signed the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 and handed the UK to the EU, he also signed us up to the the EU's Trans-European Railway (TEN-R) as defined by EU Council Directive 96/48/EC. High speed rail makes absolutely no sense in this country, but thanks to John Major, there was nothing the British government could do to stop it.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 15, 2024 18:05:49 GMT
Red: we've been over all this before, on the previous forum, but you continue to make the same unfounded claims. Council Directive 96/48 was concerned with the interoperability of rail systems (and other transport networks) within the EU. It has nothing to say about which specific lines have to exist within which member state. As for the TEN, this long pre-dates John Major and even the UK's accession to the EEC in 1973. It was in existence from the late 1950s. You're barking up the wrong tree. Have another go.
I'll re-mention once again in passing that EC 96/48 was created during the term of Neil Kinnock as Transport Commissioner (appointed during Major's reign) so if the UK government had any objections its representative was ideally placed to voice them. He didn't.
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 16, 2024 11:59:50 GMT
Red: we've been over all this before, on the previous forum, but you continue to make the same unfounded claims. Council Directive 96/48 was concerned with the interoperability of rail systems (and other transport networks) within the EU. It has nothing to say about which specific lines have to exist within which member state. As for the TEN, this long pre-dates John Major and even the UK's accession to the EEC in 1973. It was in existence from the late 1950s. You're barking up the wrong tree. Have another go.
I'll re-mention once again in passing that EC 96/48 was created during the term of Neil Kinnock as Transport Commissioner (appointed during Major's reign) so if the UK government had any objections its representative was ideally placed to voice them. He didn't. Dan: A high speed trans European rail network was outlined as far back as the Treaty of Rome, at that time the original Trans-European Network Member States (TENs) were not obliged to upgrade or complete existing infrastructure. But this changed when such obligations became EU law and were included in the 1992 Maastricht Treaty. High speed rail linking the UK to the EU was a condition of John Major signing the Maastricht Treaty and had nothing to do with the British government. Are you seriously suggesting that EU Commissioner Kinnock would have objected to EU expansionism?
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 16, 2024 13:40:57 GMT
Kinnock first. Certainly he would not have objected to EU expansionism since that was government policy and supported by the Labour party also. But the Trans European Transport Network was not expansionism as the term is usually understood, especially since transport was/is a shared competence in which the Union took precedence. But to return to the high-speed rail network. Now that you know that EC 96/48 had nothing to do with UK government plans for HS2/3, the new claim is that it was a feature of the Maastricht Treaty, right? And that imposed a duty on the UK to create a high-speed link to the EU? If you are correct, that would have been HS1, right? Not HS2, which doesn't go anywhere near the continent. Before we proceed to discuss what really happened, can you tell me where you have found these nuggets of wisdom?
The same source as your apocryphal EU Job Centres in Africa, perhaps?
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