|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 14, 2024 14:19:08 GMT
I was hoping for a more stimulating discussion concerning 'The many things [we do] better than them and others', we being the UK and not just Scotland. It seems I'm going to be disappointed once again. there's no "we". Another fantasy of yours dan. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 14:24:42 GMT
So who did you have in mind when you wrote '...we also do many things better than them and others.'
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 14, 2024 14:28:50 GMT
Ah...I see dan isnt reading threads very well again.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 14:32:08 GMT
Ah...I see dan isnt reading threads very well again. Ah yes, the good old 'reading skills' escape clause, very handy when snookered. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Nov 14, 2024 14:34:28 GMT
We've chinwagged about this before, but there is some further data to consider.
Work started recently on the extension to the LGV Sud Europe Atlantique between Bordeaux and Toulouse, which will provide a high-speed link between Paris and Toulouse and eventually on into Spain via Perpignan. The current budget for the 222km extension is €8 billion, or € 36 million (£30 million) per km. It is scheduled to open in 2032.
In comparison, the HS2 line between London Old Oak Common and Birmingham is almost the same length (225 km) but is currently budgeted at (at least) £45 billion, not counting the cost of building an extension to Euston. That's € 243 million (£ 202 million) per km - almost seven times more expensive than the LGV Bordeaux - Toulouse.
Qu'est-ce qu'y passe?!?
My recollection of the Channel Tunnel and high speed link to it was of mockery from the french for our nimbyism, and their pointing to their express rollout of the Eurostar track at their end But the fact is, the french end of that goes through barely populated fields no one gives a fuck about, whilst other french tail projects are fought over tooth and nail. My guess therefore is this new European project is once again bulldozing land to build track beds where nobody gov s a flying one, hence the relative lack of expense |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 14, 2024 14:34:53 GMT
ive mentioned "england" and "scotland" , one, the other or both , in practically every post on this thread. It's not a difficult read dan , nor a long thread by this forums standards. The proverbial "we".
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 14, 2024 14:39:19 GMT
We've chinwagged about this before, but there is some further data to consider.
Work started recently on the extension to the LGV Sud Europe Atlantique between Bordeaux and Toulouse, which will provide a high-speed link between Paris and Toulouse and eventually on into Spain via Perpignan. The current budget for the 222km extension is €8 billion, or € 36 million (£30 million) per km. It is scheduled to open in 2032.
In comparison, the HS2 line between London Old Oak Common and Birmingham is almost the same length (225 km) but is currently budgeted at (at least) £45 billion, not counting the cost of building an extension to Euston. That's € 243 million (£ 202 million) per km - almost seven times more expensive than the LGV Bordeaux - Toulouse.
Qu'est-ce qu'y passe?!?
My recollection of the Channel Tunnel and high speed link to it was of mockery from the french for our nimbyism, and their pointing to their express rollout of the Eurostar track at their end But the fact is, the french end of that goes through barely populated fields no one gives a fuck about, whilst other french tail projects are fought over tooth and nail. My guess therefore is this new European project is once again bulldozing land to build track beds where nobody gov s a flying one, hence the relative lack of expense I never knew John , the BNP and its followers were so rabidly pro EU. I suppose its because I never really paid much attention to them before .I was aware of the economically left / socially right , but then historically left wing parties from Sinn Fein , the snp to labour have for long periods been anti EEC / EU. So is this infatuation of dans a new thing among the grass roots ? Genuine question John , knowing your political background , long terms views. you and dan though despite being similar in many ways ,are at the polar end of the spectrum from each other on the EU it appears. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 14:43:29 GMT
We've chinwagged about this before, but there is some further data to consider.
Work started recently on the extension to the LGV Sud Europe Atlantique between Bordeaux and Toulouse, which will provide a high-speed link between Paris and Toulouse and eventually on into Spain via Perpignan. The current budget for the 222km extension is €8 billion, or € 36 million (£30 million) per km. It is scheduled to open in 2032.
In comparison, the HS2 line between London Old Oak Common and Birmingham is almost the same length (225 km) but is currently budgeted at (at least) £45 billion, not counting the cost of building an extension to Euston. That's € 243 million (£ 202 million) per km - almost seven times more expensive than the LGV Bordeaux - Toulouse.
Qu'est-ce qu'y passe?!?
My recollection of the Channel Tunnel and high speed link to it was of mockery from the french for our nimbyism, and their pointing to their express rollout of the Eurostar track at their end But the fact is, the french end of that goes through barely populated fields no one gives a fuck about, whilst other french tail projects are fought over tooth and nail. My guess therefore is this new European project is once again bulldozing land to build track beds where nobody gov s a flying one, hence the relative lack of expense I already noted that agricultural land in France is about half the cost as that in England. I know this because I recently bought some, in SW France too. The cost of land (agricultural) is insufficient to explain the 7x differential in the cost of the final product. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 14, 2024 14:54:05 GMT
My recollection of the Channel Tunnel and high speed link to it was of mockery from the french for our nimbyism, and their pointing to their express rollout of the Eurostar track at their end But the fact is, the french end of that goes through barely populated fields no one gives a fuck about, whilst other french tail projects are fought over tooth and nail. My guess therefore is this new European project is once again bulldozing land to build track beds where nobody gov s a flying one, hence the relative lack of expense I already noted that agricultural land in France is about half the cost as that in England. I know this because I recently bought some, in SW France too. The cost of land (agricultural) is insufficient to explain the 7x differential in the cost of the final product. energy and fuel costs are also a lot higher in the uk compared to France , design costs , volatility in labour costs via subbies , planning bureaucracy , environmental requirements and much more.... www.britainremade.co.uk/why_high_speed_rail_projects_like_hs2_cost_10_times_more_in_britain_than_france#:~:text=This%20is%20partly%20because%20we, |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 15:03:14 GMT
^that's more like it.
All those will apply to any large infrastructure project, not just HS2.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 15:37:34 GMT
ive mentioned "england" and "scotland" , one, the other or both , in practically every post on this thread. It's not a difficult read dan , nor a long thread by this forums standards. The proverbial "we". That being the case you shouldn't have any difficulty with the question as posed:
Can you provide some more examples of 'The many things [we do] better than them and others'?
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 14, 2024 16:15:44 GMT
ive mentioned "england" and "scotland" , one, the other or both , in practically every post on this thread. It's not a difficult read dan , nor a long thread by this forums standards. The proverbial "we". That being the case you shouldn't have any difficulty with the question as posed:
Can you provide some more examples of 'The many things [we do] better than them and others'?
ive given you a list of some of the things scotland does better than the French. As a nation scotland is better at inventing things than the French. Better at making whiskey with an e than the French. Scotlands football clubs are better at winning European trophies than the French. Scotland invented golf and plays better than the French. Scotlands seafood is superior to the French . we have a nationalised water system and manage that better than the French . Let me turn this around. Can you mention which things the French do better than scotland ? I appreciate you aren't keen on defending your own country england , but perhaps rather than making this a willy measuring competition between your two neighbours , how about you get involved...........positively..........no whinging about brexit...... or sulking.......regarding england. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 14, 2024 16:23:53 GMT
I won't echo your parochialism and confine my list of things the EU does better than the UK to France, although France has a major role in most of them: - a domestically-owned motor industry, not just cars but land vehicles of all types; - a domestically-owned rail rolling stock industry - power generation systems, thermal and nuclear - machine tools - agriculture self-sufficiency - civil airliners - passenger liners and civilian vessels of all types - construction equipment - power transmission systems - domestic equipment of all types - semiconductors and other electronic hardware - radar - missiles - spacecraft - telecommunications equipment of all types etc etc
PS the UK used to be a significant player in almost all of these industries, but has lost the capability to participate in any of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 14, 2024 16:37:57 GMT
I won't echo your parochialism and confine my list of things the EU does better than the UK to France, although France has a major role in most of them: -
my Scottish parochialism isnt any worse than your british parochialism , and indeed ,my country voted by a majority to remain part of your beloved EU .yours didnt. The uk isnt a country , any more than the eu is a country. just multiple groups of nations for various military , historical and political reasons lumped together , but undoubtedly one of the supra national entities is more democratic than the other. Thats for the Scottish threads though. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 14, 2024 16:41:28 GMT
PS the UK used to be a significant player in almost all of these industries, but has lost the capability to participate in any of them.
I couldnt give a fuck. Im not here to defend the uk , anymore than you are unwilling to defend england individually or scotland. Repeat after me dan.....Thomas voted remain in 2016 , and voted for scot indy in 2014 ......keep repeating it till you get it , and understand , at every single level , I am not on your side , we are not part of the same "tribe" , we dont share political social nor economic views , nor national identity . Find yourself a british brexiter to argue your british remainer views with. im neither. |
|
