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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Dec 28, 2022 12:53:35 GMT
If the former Communist, Russia-dominated countries of Eastern Europe had formed their own block instead of joining the EU then we'd still be in Europe. I've associated with Eastern Europeans who have settled here and a surprising number of them are critical of what is going on in their countries and do not intend to go back. They are also critical of people from their countries who are over here and engaging in criminal and racist behaviour. My experience of Hungarians is that they often harbour attitudes towards our minorities that are very much not to my liking. One thing we can be thankful for is that the Serbians never made it into Europe and so there are very few of them here ... the few Serbians I've had contact with came across to me as "from another planet" ... like aliens from a Star Trek episode. My experience of people from Bulgaria has been good ... they seem to be "nice people" ... with their own distinctive outlook that I find acceptable. Finally, on more than one occasion when I've asked Russians where they are from they've responded with: "I was born in Russia" ... their attitude seemed be that they'd "given up" on their country.
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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2022 12:41:09 GMT
It was a two year conscription for those over 21. That didn't mean that all apprentices were conscripted all at once, it was a gradual in out process. Hardly a barrier to progress. Well my national service was deferred to allow me to study. When I decided I no longer wanted a job in science just a couple of months before my final exam, I informed the relevant people and was having a medical and IQ test in around a month. My PULHEEMS (remember them) were perfect apart from scar tissue in my ears and I was eventually placed with the RAOC only to then get a letter from Her Majesty saying she didn't need me. I celebrated for a week. Similar for me, hearing problems. On reflection conscription might have done me some good. The place where I served my time had a couple of apprentices and a couple of young laborer's. When a guy returned to the company from doing his conscription service I recall three of us jumping on him, he took immediate control, he was just too much for us. About six to eight weeks later he was far easier to take on. |
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 10:03:47 GMT
Oh wait a minute, we weren't allowed one were we. I think this is what remainiacs call democracy lol. I know I'm late into this but referendums are usually an unwise way of deciding anything. They are vulnerable to being hijacked by populists who will misrepresent the issue. They also could invoke the tyranny of the majority and reflect a moment in time when the population is twitchy and ill informed. There seems considerable evidence that many people who voted to leave, now regret it. We didn't hold a referendum on whether to negotiate a trade deal with Australia. This is the kind of thing that we vote governments in to decide. The 2016 was more a crude effort to keep the conservatives in power. David Cameron should have shown true leadership and faced down his rebels. He should have told them that if they wanted out of the EU, then they should resign and join a party that wanted to do so. Or form their own. But he didn't and the rest is a historic mess. |
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Post by Toreador on Jan 2, 2023 10:29:51 GMT
Oh wait a minute, we weren't allowed one were we. I think this is what remainiacs call democracy lol. I know I'm late into this but referendums are usually an unwise way of deciding anything. They are vulnerable to being hijacked by populists who will misrepresent the issue. They also could invoke the tyranny of the majority and reflect a moment in time when the population is twitchy and ill informed. There seems considerable evidence that many people who voted to leave, now regret it. We didn't hold a referendum on whether to negotiate a trade deal with Australia. This is the kind of thing that we vote governments in to decide. The 2016 was more a crude effort to keep the conservatives in power. David Cameron should have shown true leadership and faced down his rebels. He should have told them that if they wanted out of the EU, then they should resign and join a party that wanted to do so. Or form their own. But he didn't and the rest is a historic mess. I know you're new on here but you really should have read these boards before you signed on. Had you done so, you would have found countless posts in a similar vein to yours and the subject have become boring. |
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 10:40:23 GMT
I know I'm late into this but referendums are usually an unwise way of deciding anything. They are vulnerable to being hijacked by populists who will misrepresent the issue. They also could invoke the tyranny of the majority and reflect a moment in time when the population is twitchy and ill informed. There seems considerable evidence that many people who voted to leave, now regret it. We didn't hold a referendum on whether to negotiate a trade deal with Australia. This is the kind of thing that we vote governments in to decide. The 2016 was more a crude effort to keep the conservatives in power. David Cameron should have shown true leadership and faced down his rebels. He should have told them that if they wanted out of the EU, then they should resign and join a party that wanted to do so. Or form their own. But he didn't and the rest is a historic mess. I know you're new on here but you really should have read these boards before you signed on. Had you done so, you would have found countless posts in a similar vein to yours and the subject have become boring. Hi toreador I'm not totally up to how this site works. In fact I've just discovered the quote function. I would guess, however, that this is certainly a well written about subject. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 2, 2023 11:25:35 GMT
Oh wait a minute, we weren't allowed one were we. I think this is what remainiacs call democracy lol. I know I'm late into this but referendums are usually an unwise way of deciding anything. They are vulnerable to being hijacked by populists who will misrepresent the issue. They also could invoke the tyranny of the majority and reflect a moment in time when the population is twitchy and ill informed. There seems considerable evidence that many people who voted to leave, now regret it. Why do I get the feeling that had the referendum gone the way you wanted it would be a wondrous example of the democratic will of the people... |
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 11:49:59 GMT
I know I'm late into this but referendums are usually an unwise way of deciding anything. They are vulnerable to being hijacked by populists who will misrepresent the issue. They also could invoke the tyranny of the majority and reflect a moment in time when the population is twitchy and ill informed. There seems considerable evidence that many people who voted to leave, now regret it. Why do I get the feeling that had the referendum gone the way you wanted it would be a wondrous example of the democratic will of the people... No it would not. It would have been a fluke. Referendums and representative democracy are uneasy bedfellows |
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Post by sandypine on Jan 2, 2023 12:08:14 GMT
Why do I get the feeling that had the referendum gone the way you wanted it would be a wondrous example of the democratic will of the people... No it would not. It would have been a fluke. Referendums and representative democracy are uneasy bedfellows I do not think so. If the process is to change the political clout or in any way the sovereign reach of that electorate then going to the people to help make that decision is a must. Extending the vote by age or restricting the vote in some way cannot be left solely in the hands of the representatives. I know the argument is you elect them to give of their opinion and their best intent and as such are not delegates. But they have to be carefully watched as the whole EU debacle has shown us over the years. |
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 16:42:53 GMT
No it would not. It would have been a fluke. Referendums and representative democracy are uneasy bedfellows I do not think so. If the process is to change the political clout or in any way the sovereign reach of that electorate then going to the people to help make that decision is a must. Extending the vote by age or restricting the vote in some way cannot be left solely in the hands of the representatives. I know the argument is you elect them to give of their opinion and their best intent and as such are not delegates. But they have to be carefully watched as the whole EU debacle has shown us over the years. I don't think that particular referendum fixed anything. If you wanted out of the EU I suspect you could have simply voted for the Brexit party, who would have stood absent of a referendum. |
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Post by Toreador on Jan 2, 2023 17:01:57 GMT
I do not think so. If the process is to change the political clout or in any way the sovereign reach of that electorate then going to the people to help make that decision is a must. Extending the vote by age or restricting the vote in some way cannot be left solely in the hands of the representatives. I know the argument is you elect them to give of their opinion and their best intent and as such are not delegates. But they have to be carefully watched as the whole EU debacle has shown us over the years. I don't think that particular referendum fixed anything. If you wanted out of the EU I suspect you could have simply voted for the Brexit party, who would have stood absent of a referendum. I can confirm that referendum fixed the fact we are no longer a member of the EU. The problem became that the miserable Remnant MPs tried everything to prevent our leaving and the Tory leadership had not a clue as how to get a better deal |
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Post by research0it on Jan 2, 2023 17:16:08 GMT
I don't think that particular referendum fixed anything. If you wanted out of the EU I suspect you could have simply voted for the Brexit party, who would have stood absent of a referendum. I can confirm that referendum fixed the fact we are no longer a member of the EU. The problem became that the miserable Remnant MPs tried everything to prevent our leaving and the Tory leadership had not a clue as how to get a better deal Hi toreador Yes but you'd have achieved that in a much more balanced way by voting in the Brexit party. Instead you pissed off nearly half the country |
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Post by see2 on Jan 2, 2023 17:16:19 GMT
I know I'm late into this but referendums are usually an unwise way of deciding anything. They are vulnerable to being hijacked by populists who will misrepresent the issue. They also could invoke the tyranny of the majority and reflect a moment in time when the population is twitchy and ill informed. There seems considerable evidence that many people who voted to leave, now regret it. Why do I get the feeling that had the referendum gone the way you wanted it would be a wondrous example of the democratic will of the people... Had Brexit lost the vote it would just have meant that the more honest and more sensible side would have won   |
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Post by sandypine on Jan 2, 2023 17:32:12 GMT
I do not think so. If the process is to change the political clout or in any way the sovereign reach of that electorate then going to the people to help make that decision is a must. Extending the vote by age or restricting the vote in some way cannot be left solely in the hands of the representatives. I know the argument is you elect them to give of their opinion and their best intent and as such are not delegates. But they have to be carefully watched as the whole EU debacle has shown us over the years. I don't think that particular referendum fixed anything. If you wanted out of the EU I suspect you could have simply voted for the Brexit party, who would have stood absent of a referendum. Of course it did because it changed the rights of the British electorate both to travel easily and the subject of others travelling easily to them. It was basically a one issue problem that actually split the main parties and has resulted in the past of MPs voting against their party lines. Instead of resolving the issue one side was incapable of accepting the decision and instead of helping take the reins down the decided path moved heaven and earth to hold back the horses going down that road and that has been in the main the problem. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 2, 2023 17:44:38 GMT
If the former Communist, Russia-dominated countries of Eastern Europe had formed their own block instead of joining the EU then we'd still be in Europe. I've associated with Eastern Europeans who have settled here and a surprising number of them are critical of what is going on in their countries and do not intend to go back. They are also critical of people from their countries who are over here and engaging in criminal and racist behaviour. My experience of Hungarians is that they often harbour attitudes towards our minorities that are very much not to my liking. One thing we can be thankful for is that the Serbians never made it into Europe and so there are very few of them here ... the few Serbians I've had contact with came across to me as "from another planet" ... like aliens from a Star Trek episode. My experience of people from Bulgaria has been good ... they seem to be "nice people" ... with their own distinctive outlook that I find acceptable. Finally, on more than one occasion when I've asked Russians where they are from they've responded with: "I was born in Russia" ... their attitude seemed be that they'd "given up" on their country. Hmm. A Polish woman who I worked with married a very dark skinned Indian guy. She said that she couldn’t go home to Poland with him. She claimed that whereas she did see some prejudice in England it wasn’t expressed but in Poland they would outrightly insult her and him..and the kid. I got the impression that the East Europeans were one step below the South Africans in prejudice against black and Asians . |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 2, 2023 18:44:05 GMT
Why do I get the feeling that had the referendum gone the way you wanted it would be a wondrous example of the democratic will of the people... Had Brexit lost the vote it would just have meant that the more honest and more sensible side would have won From a proponent of Project Fear you have a bit of a cheek to talk about honesty.. |
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