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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2024 20:04:03 GMT
The fact that I am not a card carrying member anymore nor even a Labour voter whilst still being a left winger is rather more relevant. I see Labour as a lesser evil than the Tories. The fact that you see the Tories as a lesser evil than Labour says as much about your own bias in the opposite direction regardless of voting patterns. The big difference is that you have a massive Independence for Scotland agenda whilst I have nothing similar. It is thus likely to be the case that only the option of voting SNP saved you from the taint of voting Tory. Though I do seem to recall you once admitting that you yourself voted Labour in 1997. So whilst neither of us have ever voted Tory, both of us have voted Labour in the past. Who'd have thought it, lol Steve , we are going around in circles. Can you point out where , in any post of mine , I have claimed to be unbiased? All I pointed out was I dont vote labour or tory , and increasingly many on here appear to be the same. I also pointed out , despite never being a tory voter , unlike you with labour ( I also formerly voted labour) in my opinion the tories are the lesser evil. It's a personal observation you cant seem to accept or deal with. Thats not my problem though. and? In the light of the context of our discussion , whats the relevance? Both labour and tory are of course unionist parties , especially the tories , but I regard them as the lesser evil. eh? I havent voted snp for a number of recent Westminster elections , and I have repeated my stance many a time that in an indy scotland , I would not under any circumstance vote for them. Unlike you , im not wedded to party ideology , but I am a floating voter , voting in what I see as my best interests. If a Scottish tory party existed , that were committed to Scottish indy , then of course I would consider them , as I would any party with Scotlands interests at heart. Unlike you , im not blinded by ideology in terms of left. and right politics. I have no problem with you seeing the Tories as a lesser evil than Labour. That's your choice. My objections are based upon the impression you are giving of having a problem with me seeing Labour as a lesser evil than the Tories. That is my observation. You don't have to agree with it, simply accept that my preferences are as valid as yours rather than perpetually attacking me for them. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2024 20:09:14 GMT
Anyway, early start for me tomorrow so time to turn in. So let us part for the evening on a friendly and jocular note. The point you make about Starmer getting so many fewer votes than Corbyn is one I love winding some of my former comrades up with when they go on about the worst result in their history. The crap they come out with in an attempt to explain away this inconvenient truth is invariably rather entertaining. I have an advantage over you in that I can remember many of their names locally - having known them personally - and thus find them easy to locate and wind up on FB. I have a private game I like to play to see how many end up blocking me. It is into double figures now, lol. They really don't handle inconvenient facts very well at all, especially when they shoot down their preferred bullshit mantras. Anyway, goodnight to you, and best wishes. Steve you take debating too seriously. I have told you this before. We are all adults here , and we can debate toe to toe , and stand under our banners without going off in a huff. I stand by everything I have said about labour , and we are witnessing the latest labour disaster play out at Westminster yet again. I suspect by the end of labours time in power , we will have unemployment through the roof , potentially the uk close to being bankrupt , hundreds of billions in yet more PFI debt hidden away for future generations to pay back , and yet more damage to the fabric of society in both scotland and england. we have just had an extremely regressive budget from that clown reeve , not content with taking money away from the elderly in terms of heating allowance , she has also punished small and medium business not to mention the outrage of the farming community across the uk. Even the BMA in scotland and uk wide are angered about the ENIC rises . archive.is/bM8Ib archive.is/DYockI wasn't actually going off in a huff, incredible as it might seem. I genuinely did have to get off to bed due to an early start this morning, as I said. I am however tired this evening so lack the stamina for lengthy debates with anyone. All I am doing right now is responding to my four notifications awaiting mebefore going off to chill. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2024 20:17:39 GMT
Some. But it is a statistical fact that a large majority of the young voted Remain whilst a large majority of the old voted Leave that was 8 years ago Steve , and starmer is committed to brexit. Labour have massively backed and supported the tories Freeport's across the uk , which are contrary to EU rules and customs , with each freeport zone gaining hundreds of millions in government subsidies , and typically 25 year licences , all of which puts barriers up against rejoining the EU. So why would a young pro EU person want to vote labour? They are more likely to vote Green. And Labour is not going to rock the boat by attempting to rejoin the EU and will settle for closer alignment with it, with freedom of movement for young people being mooted. Labour is basically waiting for the gammonocracy to die off before it risks raising that issue. Starmer and those around him are in any case a bunch of liars, so anything they say about Brexit or anything else is no more reliable than anything else they ever say. Political expediency alone is all that stands in the way of a massive Brexit U-turn. Starmer will not go down that route right now not because he said he wouldnt, but because it is not politically expedient. There are still too many Brexit supporters amongst the gerontocracy |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 4, 2024 20:28:01 GMT
that was 8 years ago Steve , and starmer is committed to brexit. Labour have massively backed and supported the tories Freeport's across the uk , which are contrary to EU rules and customs , with each freeport zone gaining hundreds of millions in government subsidies , and typically 25 year licences , all of which puts barriers up against rejoining the EU. So why would a young pro EU person want to vote labour? They are more likely to vote Green. And Labour is not going to rock the boat by attempting to rejoin the EU and will settle for closer alignment with it, with freedom of movement for young people being mooted. Labour is basically waiting for the gammonocracy to die off before it risks raising that issue. Starmer and those around him are in any case a bunch of liars, so anything they say about Brexit or anything else is no more reliable than anything else they ever say. Political expediency alone is all that stands in the way of a massive Brexit U-turn. Starmer will not go down that route right now not because he said he wouldnt, but because it is not politically expedient. There are still too many Brexit supporters amongst the gerontocracy LOL!
You do talk some shite, Shrieks.  |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 5, 2024 8:15:49 GMT
Hmmmm...  |
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Post by thomas on Nov 5, 2024 8:47:18 GMT
Steve , we are going around in circles. Can you point out where , in any post of mine , I have claimed to be unbiased? All I pointed out was I dont vote labour or tory , and increasingly many on here appear to be the same. I also pointed out , despite never being a tory voter , unlike you with labour ( I also formerly voted labour) in my opinion the tories are the lesser evil. It's a personal observation you cant seem to accept or deal with. Thats not my problem though. and? In the light of the context of our discussion , whats the relevance? Both labour and tory are of course unionist parties , especially the tories , but I regard them as the lesser evil. eh? I havent voted snp for a number of recent Westminster elections , and I have repeated my stance many a time that in an indy scotland , I would not under any circumstance vote for them. Unlike you , im not wedded to party ideology , but I am a floating voter , voting in what I see as my best interests. If a Scottish tory party existed , that were committed to Scottish indy , then of course I would consider them , as I would any party with Scotlands interests at heart. Unlike you , im not blinded by ideology in terms of left. and right politics. I have no problem with you seeing the Tories as a lesser evil than Labour. That's your choice. My objections are based upon the impression you are giving of having a problem with me seeing Labour as a lesser evil than the Tories. That is my observation. You don't have to agree with it, simply accept that my preferences are as valid as yours rather than perpetually attacking me for them. What you call "attack" is what I call debate , or voicing opinion , which is after all why we are all here Steve . If you are going to offer an opinion , in this case labour are the lesser evil to the tories , then you have to accept people will disagree with you. There's nothing wrong with that , and I will continue to disagree with you when I see fit. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 5, 2024 8:49:20 GMT
Steve you take debating too seriously. I have told you this before. We are all adults here , and we can debate toe to toe , and stand under our banners without going off in a huff. I stand by everything I have said about labour , and we are witnessing the latest labour disaster play out at Westminster yet again. I suspect by the end of labours time in power , we will have unemployment through the roof , potentially the uk close to being bankrupt , hundreds of billions in yet more PFI debt hidden away for future generations to pay back , and yet more damage to the fabric of society in both scotland and england. we have just had an extremely regressive budget from that clown reeve , not content with taking money away from the elderly in terms of heating allowance , she has also punished small and medium business not to mention the outrage of the farming community across the uk. Even the BMA in scotland and uk wide are angered about the ENIC rises . archive.is/bM8Ib archive.is/DYockI wasn't actually going off in a huff, incredible as it might seem. I genuinely did have to get off to bed due to an early start this morning, as I said. I am however tired this evening so lack the stamina for lengthy debates with anyone. All I am doing right now is responding to my four notifications awaiting mebefore going off to chill. Steve. I wasnt suggesting you were flouncing off in a huff , merely that you dont have to react in that way when someone disagrees with you. Most of us are all in the same boat , like you I work and need my bed too. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 5, 2024 9:00:29 GMT
that was 8 years ago Steve , and starmer is committed to brexit. Labour have massively backed and supported the tories Freeport's across the uk , which are contrary to EU rules and customs , with each freeport zone gaining hundreds of millions in government subsidies , and typically 25 year licences , all of which puts barriers up against rejoining the EU. So why would a young pro EU person want to vote labour? They are more likely to vote Green. And Labour is not going to rock the boat by attempting to rejoin the EU and will settle for closer alignment with it, with freedom of movement for young people being mooted. Labour is basically waiting for the gammonocracy to die off before it risks raising that issue. Starmer and those around him are in any case a bunch of liars, so anything they say about Brexit or anything else is no more reliable than anything else they ever say. Political expediency alone is all that stands in the way of a massive Brexit U-turn. Starmer will not go down that route right now not because he said he wouldnt, but because it is not politically expedient. There are still too many Brexit supporters amongst the gerontocracy possibly , again though you misrepresent me. Im not suggesting the youth won't vote green or any other party , what I suggested is they are starting to vote reform, and figures show reform attracted something like 10% of the 18/24 vote at the general election. Im also suggesting reform are starting to eat into the labour vote in both scotland and england. ah , the famous empty Labour Party phrases , what some call carrot dangling comes into play. What does closer alignment mean in practice Steve? Keir Starmer rejects post-Brexit youth mobility scheme with Spain
The government repeated Sir Keir Starmer’s promise not to take Britain back into the single market, customs union or restore freedom of movementwww.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-brexit-eu-visa-scheme-b2587556.html Steve , with respect I would say this is nonsense. No matter what age someone is , it's quite clear and apparent as ive said for years the uk cannot go back to the EU and save face. It will look weak , like a beggar returning with his bowl in hand. This is just more jam tomorrow from the labour heirarchy dangling future carrots for the gullible in the party. how so? on the freeport's issue alone , how many billions will it cost the uk government to buy out the 25 year licences , which are a massive barrier to rejoin or closer alignment , whatever that means ? Thats before you consider anything else? |
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Post by thomas on Nov 5, 2024 9:06:14 GMT
Hmmmm... labour are coming under massive fire in scotland regarding the tuition fee hike in england. BBC scotland covering for labour as per usual , where reporting scotland mentioned nothing about the hike( despite it being mentioned everywhere else , including bbc Wales who had an in depth item on it) and the labour branch manager in scotland Sarwar sweating as per usual when quizzed , saying Scots should not have to pay tuition fees , with the implication English students should? They never learn these clowns. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 5, 2024 9:10:38 GMT
Labours branch manager in scotland famously calling for Vince cable to resign over the tuition fee pledge while silent on his bosses pledge to abolish them once in power.   |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 5, 2024 9:19:24 GMT
I said at the time he was promising all things to all people, it was clear lies because he couldn't please all of the people all of the time, the fact he's backtracked on safeguarding pensioners , tax rises, tuition fee rises, smashing the people traffickers, makes him a LIAR, no other word you can use, out-and-out barefaced Liar.
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Post by thomas on Nov 5, 2024 9:22:18 GMT
I said at the time he was promising all things to all people, it was clear lies because he couldn't please all of the people all of the time, the fact he's backtracked on safeguarding pensioners , tax rises, tuition fee rises, smashing the people traffickers, makes him a LIAR, no other word you can use, out-and-out barefaced Liar. His lies will continue to bite him on the arse for his entire term as prime minister. I love watching labour trying to face both ways at the same time and falling on their arses. What shocks me though is the gullible who still believe them and vote for them , and until they stop doing that , labour will continue to bare face lie. |
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Post by Totheleft on Nov 5, 2024 9:40:44 GMT
I said at the time he was promising all things to all people, it was clear lies because he couldn't please all of the people all of the time, the fact he's backtracked on safeguarding pensioners , tax rises, tuition fee rises, smashing the people traffickers, makes him a LIAR, no other word you can use, out-and-out barefaced Liar. His lies will continue to bite him on the arse for his entire term as prime minister. I love watching labour trying to face both ways at the same time and falling on their arses. What shocks me though is the gullible who still believe them and vote for them , and until they stop doing that , labour will continue to bare face lie. soctish what like the gullible who keep pushing for scotish indy after it was rejected by a referendum |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 5, 2024 9:52:23 GMT
I said at the time he was promising all things to all people, it was clear lies because he couldn't please all of the people all of the time, the fact he's backtracked on safeguarding pensioners , tax rises, tuition fee rises, smashing the people traffickers, makes him a LIAR, no other word you can use, out-and-out barefaced Liar. His lies will continue to bite him on the arse for his entire term as prime minister. I love watching labour trying to face both ways at the same time and falling on their arses. What shocks me though is the gullible who still believe them and vote for them , and until they stop doing that , labour will continue to bare face lie. I agree, but people have short term memories, assuming they ditch Starmer before the next GE, then the run up to the next GE they blame all the nasty policies on Starmer, but he's gone now ... they'll throw in a few sweetners, and if people run true to form they'll forget about the lies and the deceitfulness and vote for them again, it beggars belief.
**“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.”
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 5, 2024 10:32:51 GMT
Hmmmm... LOL! Is there anything Labour haven't lied about? |
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