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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 25, 2024 22:48:06 GMT
UK has given up on the national interest and strategic thinking. EVs target is a pure example. Our remaining car industry is luxurious high margin manufactories. Bentleys, Astons Martins and Range Rovers. If we restrict them to making just EVs by 2030, practically we will kill the remaining car brands. But if you think one step ahead and look at where the battery manufactures are located (China), who controls the mineral extraction (China, Russia). Then a more clear picture comes to life. We are giving up on our strategic competitiveness and become more reliant on technologies and components controlled by our adversaries. The best thing I can think of us doing is to forget cars as we have already lost that game and if we continue to flog a dead horse it will just run up more losses and the next thing we know, no one is willing to provide any capital. Instead we must imagine the future and what is in that future that does not exist now. The main thing that is coming is highly intelligent robots controlled by photonic chips. It's a two part problem, where we need the algorithms and we need the hardware. China is second in the world when it comes to AI and the UK is third. How we got to being third is rather remarkable, but what with our remaining decent unis, we should put what we have and combine that with what China has and basically beat the US. Those who have super intelligent robots will be the future manufacturing kings. Those who don't will go out of business. Rather than fight China we should take up their offers to collaborate. I think they would be willing to strike good deals, but the problem is our politicians don't trust them. They have brainwashed themselves. They think they will steal everything, but that's not how they work. |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 26, 2024 7:48:35 GMT
Which of course makes net zero a farce, all we are doing is exporting our emissions, not achieving net zero. And of course when we produced things in he past they were our emissions but really belonged to the some of the rest of the world who imported all sorts of things from us. Like not importing from countries with harsh employment practices, the UK could restrict what it imports from polluters, no…? It could but it would be more honest to allow production of what we need to be made here without the stultifying effects of legislation to achieve net zero here at home. No harm in seeking a greener world and even legislating to that effect but little point if all one is doing is buying the stuff one does not produce due to green policy but buy the same stuff from rampant polluters. It is like saying you wish to stop all slaughter of animals in the UK but are quite happy to import all sorts of meat products from abroad. The policy makes no sense other than to restrict British manufacturing for no real gain |
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 26, 2024 8:19:53 GMT
An alternative approach would be to follow the lead of the EU and the USA in imposing punitive surcharges on imports from 'rampant polluters' i.e. China which has the beneficial side-effect of protecting local producers.
At present this is confined to electric vehicles but there is nothing to prevent it being applied in other sectors. If retaliation occurs then production can be focused on markets that are socially and environmentally responsible, as well as the home market.
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Post by blueorange on Sept 26, 2024 17:40:53 GMT
UK has given up on the national interest and strategic thinking. EVs target is a pure example. Our remaining car industry is luxurious high margin manufactories. Bentleys, Astons Martins and Range Rovers. If we restrict them to making just EVs by 2030, practically we will kill the remaining car brands. But if you think one step ahead and look at where the battery manufactures are located (China), who controls the mineral extraction (China, Russia). Then a more clear picture comes to life. We are giving up on our strategic competitiveness and become more reliant on technologies and components controlled by our adversaries. The best thing I can think of us doing is to forget cars as we have already lost that game and if we continue to flog a dead horse it will just run up more losses and the next thing we know, no one is willing to provide any capital. Instead we must imagine the future and what is in that future that does not exist now. The main thing that is coming is highly intelligent robots controlled by photonic chips. It's a two part problem, where we need the algorithms and we need the hardware. China is second in the world when it comes to AI and the UK is third. How we got to being third is rather remarkable, but what with our remaining decent unis, we should put what we have and combine that with what China has and basically beat the US. Those who have super intelligent robots will be the future manufacturing kings. Those who don't will go out of business. Rather than fight China we should take up their offers to collaborate. I think they would be willing to strike good deals, but the problem is our politicians don't trust them. They have brainwashed themselves. They think they will steal everything, but that's not how they work. First we have to understand the strategic direction. There is no point of imagining the future and creating an industry with components and supply chain based in countries which can be cut off if they participate in a regional conflict. Say we are creating a world leading production capability with China based on intelligent robots and AI. All goes well and one day China invades Taiwan. This will be the end of any cooperation and the end of our industry. Good example is Germany with a cheap energy supplies from Russia. Once you cut this supply you are practically making your industry uncompetitive. So the big question do we need a good functioning economy based on competition and free market or we are having political considerations who we are trading with. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 26, 2024 18:47:50 GMT
The best thing I can think of us doing is to forget cars as we have already lost that game and if we continue to flog a dead horse it will just run up more losses and the next thing we know, no one is willing to provide any capital. Instead we must imagine the future and what is in that future that does not exist now. The main thing that is coming is highly intelligent robots controlled by photonic chips. It's a two part problem, where we need the algorithms and we need the hardware. China is second in the world when it comes to AI and the UK is third. How we got to being third is rather remarkable, but what with our remaining decent unis, we should put what we have and combine that with what China has and basically beat the US. Those who have super intelligent robots will be the future manufacturing kings. Those who don't will go out of business. Rather than fight China we should take up their offers to collaborate. I think they would be willing to strike good deals, but the problem is our politicians don't trust them. They have brainwashed themselves. They think they will steal everything, but that's not how they work. First we have to understand the strategic direction. There is no point of imagining the future and creating an industry with components and supply chain based in countries which can be cut off if they participate in a regional conflict. Say we are creating a world leading production capability with China based on intelligent robots and AI. All goes well and one day China invades Taiwan. This will be the end of any cooperation and the end of our industry. Good example is Germany with a cheap energy supplies from Russia. Once you cut this supply you are practically making your industry uncompetitive. So the big question do we need a good functioning economy based on competition and free market or we are having political considerations who we are trading with. It's just bullshit. They will not invade Taiwan. I hear from those in Taiwan pretty regularly and they are all pretty laid back and respect the mainlanders. It's just a maverick group of separatists who are stirring shit up on behalf of the US for political reasons. We should stop being a part of that asshole show where we send our warships over there to annoy and intimidate them. To be honest I can't think of a stupider policy towards China than petty intimidation. Our politicians have no understanding of how China works and so they are very fearful. There is nothing to fear though because they respect Britain. They see Britain as the inventor of most of the modern world, and treat us well. The only relationship damage is our arrogant BBC and or arrogant ministers, who all think they look big by telling China what it should do. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 26, 2024 20:09:29 GMT
It's just bullshit. They will not invade Taiwan. I hear from those in Taiwan pretty regularly and they are all pretty laid back and respect the mainlanders. It's just a maverick group of separatists who are stirring shit up on behalf of the US for political reasons. We should stop being a part of that asshole show where we send our warships over there to annoy and intimidate them. To be honest I can't think of a stupider policy towards China than petty intimidation. Our politicians have no understanding of how China works and so they are very fearful. There is nothing to fear though because they respect Britain. They see Britain as the inventor of most of the modern world, and treat us well. The only relationship damage is our arrogant BBC and or arrogant ministers, who all think they look big by telling China what it should do. BvL honestly, you talk more bollox than a Uyghur who has undergone re-education in a Chinese internment camp. Taiwan’s defence ministry said today (26 September 2024) that 29 more Chinese fighter jets and drones were detected around the democratic island, following a 24-hour period that saw a surge in military movement by Beijing’s forces. China, which claims democratic Taiwan as part of its territory, sends warplanes, drones, and naval vessels around the island nearly every day. thedefensepost.com/2024/09/26/taiwan-chinese-aircraft-detected/An act of war, or petty intimidation?.. |
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Post by blueorange on Sept 26, 2024 20:24:38 GMT
First we have to understand the strategic direction. There is no point of imagining the future and creating an industry with components and supply chain based in countries which can be cut off if they participate in a regional conflict. Say we are creating a world leading production capability with China based on intelligent robots and AI. All goes well and one day China invades Taiwan. This will be the end of any cooperation and the end of our industry. Good example is Germany with a cheap energy supplies from Russia. Once you cut this supply you are practically making your industry uncompetitive. So the big question do we need a good functioning economy based on competition and free market or we are having political considerations who we are trading with. It's just bullshit. They will not invade Taiwan. I hear from those in Taiwan pretty regularly and they are all pretty laid back and respect the mainlanders. It's just a maverick group of separatists who are stirring shit up on behalf of the US for political reasons. We should stop being a part of that asshole show where we send our warships over there to annoy and intimidate them. To be honest I can't think of a stupider policy towards China than petty intimidation. Our politicians have no understanding of how China works and so they are very fearful. There is nothing to fear though because they respect Britain. They see Britain as the inventor of most of the modern world, and treat us well. The only relationship damage is our arrogant BBC and or arrogant ministers, who all think they look big by telling China what it should do. I have to say I heard all of this before Russia invaded Ukraine. All of the political, military, economic analysts believed they were just bluffing. Absolutely no one thought they might actually do it. But the war showed that the world is divided and economic cooperation is closely related to military alliances. If you want to put pressure on the country you need to have economic instruments. You are right we can have a good relationship with China but we have to respect them as a sovereign nation something which our imperial/colonial mentality doesn't allow us to do. Although we are a small island with limited resources we have this attitude which is clearly against our national interests. |
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Post by jonksy on Sept 26, 2024 21:31:02 GMT
Electric car production falls despite looming deadline...... Production of electric cars fell by more than 25% last month despite the looming sales ban on traditional combustion engines, according to industry body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT). It comes as major UK manufacturer Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) told Sky News more needs to be done to make buying and owning an electric car more appealing. More investment in electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure is needed, according to Trevor Leeks, the operations director of JLR's Halewood plant on Merseyside. A further £500m investment in electric car production has just been announced for the site.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 26, 2024 21:31:23 GMT
The best thing I can think of us doing is to forget cars as we have already lost that game and if we continue to flog a dead horse it will just run up more losses and the next thing we know, no one is willing to provide any capital. Instead we must imagine the future and what is in that future that does not exist now. The main thing that is coming is highly intelligent robots controlled by photonic chips. It's a two part problem, where we need the algorithms and we need the hardware. China is second in the world when it comes to AI and the UK is third. How we got to being third is rather remarkable, but what with our remaining decent unis, we should put what we have and combine that with what China has and basically beat the US. Those who have super intelligent robots will be the future manufacturing kings. Those who don't will go out of business. Rather than fight China we should take up their offers to collaborate. I think they would be willing to strike good deals, but the problem is our politicians don't trust them. They have brainwashed themselves. They think they will steal everything, but that's not how they work. First we have to understand the strategic direction. There is no point of imagining the future and creating an industry with components and supply chain based in countries which can be cut off if they participate in a regional conflict. Say we are creating a world leading production capability with China based on intelligent robots and AI. All goes well and one day China invades Taiwan. This will be the end of any cooperation and the end of our industry. Good example is Germany with a cheap energy supplies from Russia. Once you cut this supply you are practically making your industry uncompetitive. So the big question do we need a good functioning economy based on competition and free market or we are having political considerations who we are trading with. We have always had political considerations who we traded with - Palmerston actually based his whole foreign policy on trade. |
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Post by blueorange on Sept 27, 2024 10:35:51 GMT
Electric car production falls despite looming deadline...... Production of electric cars fell by more than 25% last month despite the looming sales ban on traditional combustion engines, according to industry body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT). It comes as major UK manufacturer Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) told Sky News more needs to be done to make buying and owning an electric car more appealing. More investment in electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure is needed, according to Trevor Leeks, the operations director of JLR's Halewood plant on Merseyside. A further £500m investment in electric car production has just been announced for the site.
There is an inherent problem with the EVs - the battery. The value of the second hand car is determined by the state of the battery. So even if the car is perfectly fine with no scratches and low millage if the battery is dying then the value will be hammered. The same problem we have with our phones, the battery determines if you need a new phone. s |
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 30, 2024 20:12:10 GMT
There is an inherent problem with the EVs - the battery. The value of the second hand car is determined by the state of the battery. So even if the car is perfectly fine with no scratches and low millage if the battery is dying then the value will be hammered. The same problem we have with our phones, the battery determines if you need a new phone. I agree EV batteries are a big problem, for many reasons: 1) They are an environmental nightmare to produce 2) They are very expensive 3) They are heavy 4) They are combustible 5) Cold weather (See UK) greatly reduces range and battery life 6) They are an environmental nightmare to dispose of However, net zero zealots will ignore all that, and they will continue to ignore it until the environmental damage of producing EV batteries becomes too obvious for even them to ignore. And that wont be long. |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 30, 2024 23:57:35 GMT
7) With such high demand on the undersupplied grid they're not even cheap to run into the ground.
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Post by jonksy on Oct 2, 2024 4:40:57 GMT
‘Huge losses’: Sweden fears for future of batterymaker Northvolt..... Just three years ago, Sweden’s then prime minister, Stefan Löfven, visited Northvolt’s base near the Arctic Circle in Skellefteå – Europe’s first homegrown battery gigafactory – and declared the city “the future” in the fight against the climate crisis. Its work had huge significance for Sweden and the world, the Social Democrat said. The arrival of the battery manufacturer was not only supposed to be a flagship project for Sweden’s “green industrial revolution” but hailed as Europe’s big hope against dependence on oil and imported batteries from China. Since its foundation in 2016 to build “the world’s greenest battery”, Northvolt’s rapid rise has attracted billions of dollars of investment and orders from the world’s biggest car companies including Volkswagen, BMW and Volvo. But as Europe’s electric car market struggles, much of this enthusiasm is starting to look like fantasy. In June, BMW cancelled a $2.5bn contract with Northvolt. And last week, amid a spiralling cashflow crisis, the battery manufacturer announced it was making 1,600 redundancies and suspending expansion of its Northvolt Ett factory in Skellefteå. Rumours swirl of potential imminent bankruptcy and even Chinese sabotage – both dismissed by Northvolt as “speculation”. Meanwhile, police are investigating the death of a 25-year-old man at the factory amid suspicions that workplace violationsmay have led to his death.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 2, 2024 8:42:50 GMT
‘Huge losses’: Sweden fears for future of batterymaker Northvolt..... Just three years ago, Sweden’s then prime minister, Stefan Löfven, visited Northvolt’s base near the Arctic Circle in Skellefteå – Europe’s first homegrown battery gigafactory – and declared the city “the future” in the fight against the climate crisis. Its work had huge significance for Sweden and the world, the Social Democrat said. The arrival of the battery manufacturer was not only supposed to be a flagship project for Sweden’s “green industrial revolution” but hailed as Europe’s big hope against dependence on oil and imported batteries from China. Since its foundation in 2016 to build “the world’s greenest battery”, Northvolt’s rapid rise has attracted billions of dollars of investment and orders from the world’s biggest car companies including Volkswagen, BMW and Volvo. But as Europe’s electric car market struggles, much of this enthusiasm is starting to look like fantasy. In June, BMW cancelled a $2.5bn contract with Northvolt. And last week, amid a spiralling cashflow crisis, the battery manufacturer announced it was making 1,600 redundancies and suspending expansion of its Northvolt Ett factory in Skellefteå. Rumours swirl of potential imminent bankruptcy and even Chinese sabotage – both dismissed by Northvolt as “speculation”. Meanwhile, police are investigating the death of a 25-year-old man at the factory amid suspicions that workplace violationsmay have led to his death.
CATL and BYD are just too slick for EU manufacturers. This is why I have said all along, if we are going to invite foreign firms to build our factories then we might as well work with the winners. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Oct 5, 2024 21:30:19 GMT
I wonder if any critics of EVs here have actually owned one suitable for their requirements… As I have pointed out several times.... My 2WD Suzuki S Cross SUV, bought at the end of my freelancing career and subjected to 45,000 miles of motoring in my first year of ownership just before the pandemic fucked everything cost me approximately 12.5p per mile driven. After several years of doing barely anything it came to a sad end thanks to an utter arse hole but by then I had switched to a bank job largely done from home and now did barely thirty business miles a month When a nine year old Nissan Leaf came to my notice for a mere FIVE grand, I bought it. Its instruments swore it could have done 74 miles on a charge I never got more than 60 on Welsh hill roads. Headlights cut that by 5, rear demister cut it by the same amount, using the heater meant 15 went down the pan. So you were left driving a car that offered you the driving experience of the 1952 Ford popular I learned on before mum dumped it and bought a mini. Duff Lighting, lousy brakes, no heating and bugger all demisting When I took it on, my electricity bill was in the low 20's of pennies per kWh. The car chewed each and gave 3 miles round our hilly roads, 4 on the flat. So about 8p a mile, less than two thirds the ICE Then came Ukraine. Yes diesel rose, but juice skyrocketed. Otopus were charging me 59p a unit. The regulator is involved because that way exceeded the price cap but that's what they did. Motoring cost about 20p a mile if fuelled from home. But Insurance doubled and the AA want d three times the sum, Green flag wanted twice. I sold it. The dealer I bought my cars from in the past offered me three grand in part ex as no one wanted them. I sold it on Motorway for £1000 more than it was sold to me for by someone who wanted a laugh... The full 4WD Dacia I bought for £1500.more than the sale price cost the same as the Suzuki to insure, and costs about 15.5p.a mile in fuel The last refill of the car at home was done at 36.5p a unit on British gas. McDonalds wanted about 69p a unit, the Avonmouth Services wanted about 80p a unit as did the Aust Severn Bridge EVs were sold to corporate car users because they didn't care that they cost £55,000 they were not buying. The P11D burden of an ICE car is about 40% of its retail value, wiping out your entire tax code. The P11D burden of an EV is a fraction of that, single figures I believe my former car salesman told me, citing the deal HE had which meant driving anything other than the Renault Clio EV the company offered was insane. The EV I owned covered what I needed for work, but not a mile more... |
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