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Post by steppenwolf on Sept 21, 2024 6:49:48 GMT
Year on year sales of pure EVs have gone down 44% in France and Germany and plans for new EVs are being being dropped by car manufacturers because the demand simply isn't there. The situation is pretty similar in the UK and the rules that EVs (purely electrical cars) must make up 22% of new car sales (and gradually ratchetting up to 100% by 2030) is holding back sales of new conventional cars because EVs are stuck on about 18% and going down.
At some point our useless politicians must recognise that there's a problem or we're going to lose what's left of our car industry. But so far none of them have even commented.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 21, 2024 6:56:54 GMT
This might have something to do with it..
Running an electric vehicle (EV) can cost more than 24p per mile, while a diesel vehicle is 12.5p.
It costs as much as 80p per kilowatt hour to charge an EV using a rapid or ultra-rapid device on the roadside, according to data from the app ZapMap.
A typical electric car will travel 3.3 miles for every kWh of electricity used, meaning rapid and ultra-rapid chargers currently cost the equivalent of 24.1p per mile, calculations by The Times suggest.
Slower chargers cost 16.4p per mile.
This is about double the average diesel car, which will do 43 miles per gallon, resulting in a cost of 12.5p per mile at current prices. A typical petrol car costs 14.5p per mile, according to the analysis.
A return journey from London to Penzance would cost £148 in an electric car using rapid chargers, The Times said, compared with £77 in a diesel car and £89 using petrol.
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Post by steppenwolf on Sept 21, 2024 7:12:54 GMT
I notice that the small band of posters who used to champion EVs don't comment much any more.  |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 21, 2024 7:16:41 GMT
Year on year sales of pure EVs have gone down 44% in France and Germany and plans for new EVs are being being dropped by car manufacturers because the demand simply isn't there. The situation is pretty similar in the UK and the rules that EVs (purely electrical cars) must make up 22% of new car sales (and gradually ratchetting up to 100% by 2030) is holding back sales of new conventional cars because EVs are stuck on about 18% and going down. At some point our useless politicians must recognise that there's a problem or we're going to lose what's left of our car industry. But so far none of them have even commented. Dogma is now trying to force the issue and failing miserably. It looks on the cards that the same Dogma will try and drive ICE cars off the roads altogether at some time before 2040 and force people into more expensive electric cars or off the roads. They may meet some stiff resistance well before then unless they relax the issue. If they do not Reform's abandoning of netzero looks like an election winner and realistically it will be the fault of the Green zealots and their determination to make everyone do 'the right thing' whilst some ignore it and fly the private jets, heat the private swimming pools, heat the 12 bedroom houses and buy the coastal houses, that are supposedly under threat, at ever increasing prices. We see through them. |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 21, 2024 7:25:33 GMT
The carbon footprint of an electric car is enormous. Fifty thousand miles of driving before you break even and by then the battery is worn out.
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Post by jonksy on Sept 21, 2024 8:27:20 GMT
With more than 40% of UK homes lacking a driveway, lamp-post chargers are billed as the solution for drivers to refuel their EVs locally. However, could reports of failing chargers and ICE car drivers being angry at losing parking bays undermine public support for them? In July, west London’s Hounslow Council cut off the power to a number of lamp-post chargers in Chiswick after residents reported that they had stopped working. Following an inspection, the council concluded that heavy rainfall had entered the chargers, causing them and the street lamps to which they were connected to fail. The council has since restored power to the lamps while Ubitricity, the Shell-owned charger provider that installed the chargers, carries out repairs. In April, residents in the same borough protested about the creation of lamp-post charging bays because they resulted in the loss of eight parking spaces for ICE cars on a street that had few EVs. The council promised to respond but didn’t reply to Autocar’s request for comment. These aren’t the first instances of lamp-post chargers attracting negative publicity. In November last year, Portsmouth City Council disconnected 98 lamp-post and bollard-mounted chargers due to safety concerns. The council said it had instructed provider Ubitricity to resolve the issue “as soon as possible”. However, seven months later, only 41 of those chargers had gone back online.
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ginnyg2
Full Member
Don't blame me - I voted for someone else.
Posts: 401
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Post by ginnyg2 on Sept 21, 2024 9:48:25 GMT
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Post by Vinny on Sept 21, 2024 10:10:22 GMT
Fuel cells and synthetic fuels are a better idea than trying to shoehorn everyone into electric vehicles.
And, hello!? LORRIES.
Battery lorries are the stupidest idea ever.
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Post by jonksy on Sept 21, 2024 12:47:59 GMT
Northvolt was presented as the ultimate European batteries in the face of China. Splash! The Swedish company is facing major financial difficulties. Jobs will be lost. Sweden does not intend to come to Northvolt's rescue. Prime Minister, Ulf Kristersson, has officially declared this. However, this company is one of the essential pawns in dissociating itself from China in the supply of batteries for electric cars. Proof of its ambitions, its shareholders include Volkswagen (21% of the shares), Goldman Sachs (19%) and Vargas Holding (7%). However, the financial situation is bad. So much so that the creditors have asked for help from a bank specializing in restructuring.
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Post by sandypine on Sept 21, 2024 12:52:02 GMT
Fuel cells and synthetic fuels are a better idea than trying to shoehorn everyone into electric vehicles. And, hello!? LORRIES. Battery lorries are the stupidest idea ever. There was talk of compressed air vehicles for a while which seemed a sensible idea although I assume many of the drawbacks were similar to EV although CA were bound to be much lighter. |
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Post by patman post on Sept 21, 2024 13:55:07 GMT
Scare stories about EVs are about as valid as the scare stories about Covid vaccines — ie, there may be a bit of truth somewhere about a loosely related item or topic. But, overall, they're mainly stories cobbling together a few opinions, rumours and spurious bits of tittle-tattle. According to Zapmap's latest figures from its annual EV charging survey, 84% of EV owners have a home charge point, therefore the remaining 16% of EV owners are currently using public charging infrastructure or other methods to charge their cars (depot or workplace charging etc). www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/latest-news/drivers-without-access-to-home-chargers-arent-buying-evs-says-co-charger/The cost variation of charging is enormous. It can cost as little as 7p/kWh to charge off-peak at home, whereas public chargers can cost 80p/kWh. Tesla drivers are lucky — on average, Tesla charging stations cost 60p per kWh for non-members, or 50p per kWh for monthly members (£10.99 per month). Running cost per mile for typical medium EV are 2p for off-peak home, to 26p using public ultra-rapid charging. A typical medium petrol car costs 15p per mile, while for diesel it’s 12p (based on paying 142.28p for petrol and 147.13p for diesel). Scare stories giving carbon emission comparisons for manufacture and running of EVs and ICE vehicles are just plain wrong. The last UK coal-fired power station has closed, and the proportion of renewables is constantly increasing. Electrical energy is replacing fossil fuel across the board from steel-making to home baking. EVs are not the only users. On average, EVs incur about 50% less maintenance expenses than ICE vehicles over their lifetime. EVs generally require less frequent service intervals due to their simpler mechanical systems. www.recharged.com/differences-between_ICE-EV-maintenance/Petroleum extraction, transportation of crude, refining and delivery adds pollution every step of the way. The main problem for potential EV owners and operators remains price. This is due to the additional (but declining) extra costs of manufacturing larger batteries, management systems, motors, etc. However, this can be totally negated during the life of the vehicle by lower running and maintenance costs. I'm pro EVs because I drive one and, although I don't have a home charger, I can charge for free where I work. And quietness, smoothness and acceleration are great plusses. Mrs P has a hybrid, which she can charge at home, and uses very little fuel — she keeps complaining her that car keeps telling her to add 15ltr of new fuel... |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 21, 2024 16:06:04 GMT
Scare stories about EVs are about as valid as the scare stories about Covid vaccines — ie, there may be a bit of truth somewhere about a loosely related item or topic. But, overall, they're mainly stories cobbling together a few opinions, rumours and spurious bits of tittle-tattle. According to Zapmap's latest figures from its annual EV charging survey, 84% of EV owners have a home charge point, therefore the remaining 16% of EV owners are currently using public charging infrastructure or other methods to charge their cars (depot or workplace charging etc). www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/latest-news/drivers-without-access-to-home-chargers-arent-buying-evs-says-co-charger/The cost variation of charging is enormous. It can cost as little as 7p/kWh to charge off-peak at home, whereas public chargers can cost 80p/kWh. Tesla drivers are lucky — on average, Tesla charging stations cost 60p per kWh for non-members, or 50p per kWh for monthly members (£10.99 per month). Running cost per mile for typical medium EV are 2p for off-peak home, to 26p using public ultra-rapid charging. A typical medium petrol car costs 15p per mile, while for diesel it’s 12p (based on paying 142.28p for petrol and 147.13p for diesel). Scare stories giving carbon emission comparisons for manufacture and running of EVs and ICE vehicles are just plain wrong. The last UK coal-fired power station has closed, and the proportion of renewables is constantly increasing. Electrical energy is replacing fossil fuel across the board from steel-making to home baking. EVs are not the only users. On average, EVs incur about 50% less maintenance expenses than ICE vehicles over their lifetime. EVs generally require less frequent service intervals due to their simpler mechanical systems. www.recharged.com/differences-between_ICE-EV-maintenance/Petroleum extraction, transportation of crude, refining and delivery adds pollution every step of the way. The main problem for potential EV owners and operators remains price. This is due to the additional (but declining) extra costs of manufacturing larger batteries, management systems, motors, etc. However, this can be totally negated during the life of the vehicle by lower running and maintenance costs. I'm pro EVs because I drive one and, although I don't have a home charger, I can charge for free where I work. And quietness, smoothness and acceleration are great plusses. Mrs P has a hybrid, which she can charge at home, and uses very little fuel — she keeps complaining her that car keeps telling her to add 15ltr of new fuel... At the end of the day the consumer votes with his wallet and if EVs are getting a bad press overall and there are falling sales there has to be a reason other than malicious intent and scare stories. Drivers talk to other drivers all the time and if the overall experience is not as good as ICE vehicles then that will come out. Individual drivers have preferences and what suits you may be useless for someone else. I drove tepee diesel and it was perfect for my needs, over 600 miles on a tankful, 55 to the gallon and for ten years servicing and repairs very low. Horses for courses. Driving all night in the cold weather did not significantly alter those returns. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 21, 2024 16:38:48 GMT
This might have something to do with it.. Running an electric vehicle (EV) can cost more than 24p per mile, while a diesel vehicle is 12.5p.
It costs as much as 80p per kilowatt hour to charge an EV using a rapid or ultra-rapid device on the roadside, according to data from the app ZapMap.
A typical electric car will travel 3.3 miles for every kWh of electricity used, meaning rapid and ultra-rapid chargers currently cost the equivalent of 24.1p per mile, calculations by The Times suggest.
Slower chargers cost 16.4p per mile.
This is about double the average diesel car, which will do 43 miles per gallon, resulting in a cost of 12.5p per mile at current prices. A typical petrol car costs 14.5p per mile, according to the analysis.
A return journey from London to Penzance would cost £148 in an electric car using rapid chargers, The Times said, compared with £77 in a diesel car and £89 using petrol.Amazing rocket science that, where it cost more in EVs when being charged 4x the price for leccy. Welcome to rip-off Britain. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 21, 2024 16:47:32 GMT
BYD Seal
China £20k
UK £48k
By the way it does 3 1/3 miles to one kWh, so the Times estimate is pretty bang on for that model.
in China leccy is 7p/unit so that is 2.1p/mile compared to petrol at 14.5p in the UK.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Sept 21, 2024 16:55:34 GMT
The carbon footprint of an electric car is enormous. Fifty thousand miles of driving before you break even and by then the battery is worn out. New CATL batteries will give you 1000km range. Make that 800km for 80% = 500 miles.
500 x 5000 = 2.5 million against your estimate of 50 k meaning you are wrong by a factor of 5000%.
Don't you dare criticise Dianne Abbott for her maths!
Yes it might be a little less if you consider old batteries hold less charge, but not that much less.
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