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Post by sandypine on Sept 19, 2024 16:17:39 GMT
So you encourage other posters to point out that left wingers are as bad as right wingers and extreme wing governments have been just as bad as extreme right wing governments? I point out, not encourage, that the far left is as bad as the far right, yes. I have NEVER disputed the fact that extremist governments of the Left and of the Right, are as bad as each other. I have been trying to discuss the trend for Rightist politics to spread in the Western hemisphere. My concern is the Western hemisphere because that is where I live. And the last thing I wish to see is the West naively slipping into Rightist thinking, thus opening the path to Rightist extremism, as in the case of the progress made by the German AfG. What makes the AfG right wing, what polices do they have, what actions have they taken that brands them as RW and far right wing? EDIT I will help They say they are democrats, want Swiss type referenda, separate powers(executive, legislative and judicial), limit the influence of political parties, realign party funding and Constitutional law, free election of candidates, restrict career politicians, direct election of president, curtail lobbyism, punish wastage of tax revenues, reform MPs pension scheme, restor power of nation state, strengthen law and criminal justice, protect German borders, strengthen German armed forces, reinstate compulsory military service, retain minimum wages, end financial discrimination of families, make work pay, promote traditional family, larger families instead of mass immigration, German as predominant culture instead of Multiculturalism, freedom of religion within the law, tolerate criticism of Islam, no full body veiling in public spaces, no irregulat migration via asylum laws, repatriation for those not entitled to stay, reconsider free movement in EU, control immigration from Non-eu countries to moderate levels, create transparency in costs of immigration, reduce bureaucracy, improve consumer protection, retain unrestricted use of cash, scrap renewable energy act, stop uncontrolled expansion of wind turbines... plenty more, for the life of me I cannot find a far right policy. Some even seem fairly left leaning. , |
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Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2024 7:56:26 GMT
I point out, not encourage, that the far left is as bad as the far right, yes. I have NEVER disputed the fact that extremist governments of the Left and of the Right, are as bad as each other. I have been trying to discuss the trend for Rightist politics to spread in the Western hemisphere. My concern is the Western hemisphere because that is where I live. And the last thing I wish to see is the West naively slipping into Rightist thinking, thus opening the path to Rightist extremism, as in the case of the progress made by the German AfG. What makes the AfG right wing, what polices do they have, what actions have they taken that brands them as RW and far right wing? EDIT I will help They say they are democrats, want Swiss type referenda, separate powers(executive, legislative and judicial), limit the influence of political parties, realign party funding and Constitutional law, free election of candidates, restrict career politicians, direct election of president, curtail lobbyism, punish wastage of tax revenues, reform MPs pension scheme, restor power of nation state, strengthen law and criminal justice, protect German borders, strengthen German armed forces, reinstate compulsory military service, retain minimum wages, end financial discrimination of families, make work pay, promote traditional family, larger families instead of mass immigration, German as predominant culture instead of Multiculturalism, freedom of religion within the law, tolerate criticism of Islam, no full body veiling in public spaces, no irregulat migration via asylum laws, repatriation for those not entitled to stay, reconsider free movement in EU, control immigration from Non-eu countries to moderate levels, create transparency in costs of immigration, reduce bureaucracy, improve consumer protection, retain unrestricted use of cash, scrap renewable energy act, stop uncontrolled expansion of wind turbines... plenty more, for the life of me I cannot find a far right policy. Some even seem fairly left leaning. , Do you have the same blank area of your mind when it comes to the far left? Do you really expect extremists to expose all their intentions? And how they would go about imposing their intentions? If so then you appear to be quite naive. Far-Right governments are extremist and elitist, they can and do lead to authoritarian governments that strongly divide a nation. You have seen the antics of the far-right would be Dictator Trump (Jan 6fh) in America. Don't think it couldn't happen in Europe. |
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Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2024 8:04:05 GMT
I don't "encourage" other posters to do anything. I point out the reality. And again for the umpteenth time extremists of the Left and of the Right are as bad as each other. I have already answered the second part of your question. I really don't know what more you want from me. That’s easy . Don’t whine when other points of view are posted. I don't whine, full stop. I defend myself against false accusations, not just other points of view. People are entitled to their points of view, but they are not entitled to force their opinions onto me. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 8:05:52 GMT
That’s easy . Don’t whine when other points of view are posted. I don't whine, full stop. I defend myself against false accusations, not just other points of view. People are entitled to their points of view, but they are not entitled to force their opinions onto me. Nobody did. That didn’t stop you whining. |
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Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2024 8:12:01 GMT
I don't whine, full stop. I defend myself against false accusations, not just other points of view. People are entitled to their points of view, but they are not entitled to force their opinions onto me. Nobody did. That didn’t stop you whining. You tried to with your constant whining about 'all things SHOULD be involved in a debate'. Eventually proved to be a false approach. But that didn't stop your whining. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 8:19:08 GMT
Nobody did. That didn’t stop you whining. You tried to with your constant whining about 'all things SHOULD be involved in a debate'. Eventually proved to be a false approach. But that didn't stop your whining. I was educating you on what an actual debate is . When you found out that a debate is not just you pontificating and telling posters who don’t agree with you that they ‘ have a blank area in their mind , or are bias , or are immature etc etc you whine that others are ‘ forcing their opinions on you ‘. You haven’t stopped . In fact now you are back to projecting your mental deficiencies at me. |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 20, 2024 8:48:05 GMT
What makes the AfG right wing, what polices do they have, what actions have they taken that brands them as RW and far right wing? EDIT I will help They say they are democrats, want Swiss type referenda, separate powers(executive, legislative and judicial), limit the influence of political parties, realign party funding and Constitutional law, free election of candidates, restrict career politicians, direct election of president, curtail lobbyism, punish wastage of tax revenues, reform MPs pension scheme, restor power of nation state, strengthen law and criminal justice, protect German borders, strengthen German armed forces, reinstate compulsory military service, retain minimum wages, end financial discrimination of families, make work pay, promote traditional family, larger families instead of mass immigration, German as predominant culture instead of Multiculturalism, freedom of religion within the law, tolerate criticism of Islam, no full body veiling in public spaces, no irregulat migration via asylum laws, repatriation for those not entitled to stay, reconsider free movement in EU, control immigration from Non-eu countries to moderate levels, create transparency in costs of immigration, reduce bureaucracy, improve consumer protection, retain unrestricted use of cash, scrap renewable energy act, stop uncontrolled expansion of wind turbines... plenty more, for the life of me I cannot find a far right policy. Some even seem fairly left leaning. , Do you have the same blank area of your mind when it comes to the far left? Do you really expect extremists to expose all their intentions? And how they would go about imposing their intentions? If so then you appear to be quite naive. Far-Right governments are extremist and elitist, they can and do lead to authoritarian governments that strongly divide a nation. You have seen the antics of the far-right would be Dictator Trump (Jan 6fh) in America. Don't think it couldn't happen in Europe. I am still at a loss. How are they right or far right in the first instance? How can they be labelled as such if the labelling boils down to what you suspect they will do should they gain power? There must be a first port of call that makes then RW and then far right. In the case of the far left it is easy, they declare what they are and define what they wish to do. The SWP have clear intent and self define as Trotskyist. The 'progressives' are much harder to pinpoint but are usually fairly clear in their intent with 'fairness' being used most in their intentions which usually works out as redistribution. The left are fairly clear and the far left are fairly clear, so far being right seems to be not being left and being far right means being openly not left. You seem unable to put any defining policies as being of the right which makes them RW and as such the danger you seem to fear. |
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Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2024 8:49:06 GMT
You tried to with your constant whining about 'all things SHOULD be involved in a debate'. Eventually proved to be a false approach. But that didn't stop your whining. . When you found out that a debate is not just you pontificating and telling posters who don’t agree with you that they ‘ have a blank area in their mind , or are bias , or are immature etc etc you whine that others are ‘ forcing their opinions on you ‘. You haven’t stopped . In fact now you are back to projecting your mental deficiencies at me. You actually proved just how wrong your were to want to force your false claim that your interpretation of debate was the only way to debate, so thanks. Its not the first time that your interpretation of matters has proved to be wrong. Unfortunately there is no chance of you opening your mind in an honest serious debating way. That would just cramp your whinging style. So I will ignore your lies, insinuations and denigrations in the future, but if they get too nasty, as they have done in the past, or too prolific, I will have no problem in reporting you. BYE. |
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Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2024 8:56:34 GMT
Do you have the same blank area of your mind when it comes to the far left? Do you really expect extremists to expose all their intentions? And how they would go about imposing their intentions? If so then you appear to be quite naive. Far-Right governments are extremist and elitist, they can and do lead to authoritarian governments that strongly divide a nation. You have seen the antics of the far-right would be Dictator Trump (Jan 6fh) in America. Don't think it couldn't happen in Europe. How can they be labelled as such if the labelling boils down to what you suspect they will do should they gain power? There must be a first port of call that makes then RW and then far right. In the case of the far left it is easy, they declare what they are and define what they wish to do. The SWP have clear intent and self define as Trotskyist. The 'progressives' are much harder to pinpoint but are usually fairly clear in their intent with 'fairness' being used most in their intentions which usually works out as redistribution. The left are fairly clear and the far left are fairly clear, so far being right seems to be not being left and being far right means being openly not left. You seem unable to put any defining policies as being of the right which makes them RW and as such the danger you seem to fear. "Alternative for Germany (German: Alternative für Deutschland, AfD, German pronunciation: [aːʔɛfˈdeː] ⓘ) is a far-right and right-wing populist political party in Germany. Look up the definition of Far-Right and Fascism for yourself. Then maybe you will stop misleading yourself. |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 20, 2024 9:18:21 GMT
I am still at a loss. How are they right or far right in the first instance? How can they be labelled as such if the labelling boils down to what you suspect they will do should they gain power? There must be a first port of call that makes then RW and then far right. In the case of the far left it is easy, they declare what they are and define what they wish to do. The SWP have clear intent and self define as Trotskyist. The 'progressives' are much harder to pinpoint but are usually fairly clear in their intent with 'fairness' being used most in their intentions which usually works out as redistribution. The left are fairly clear and the far left are fairly clear, so far being right seems to be not being left and being far right means being openly not left. You seem unable to put any defining policies as being of the right which makes them RW and as such the danger you seem to fear. "Alternative for Germany (German: Alternative für Deutschland, AfD, German pronunciation: [aːʔɛfˈdeː] ⓘ) is a far-right and right-wing populist political party in Germany. Look up the definition of Far-Right and Fascism for yourself. Then maybe you will stop misleading yourself.I'll leave Fascism aside for a minute but looking at Wiki for far right I got "a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian, often also including nativist tendencies." The AfD do not seem to be radically conservative as many of their policies are arguably leftish in outlook. Which policies are 'ultra Nationalist' many are Nationalist but then most countries in the world are nationalist in nature and it is only countries in the West that are decried for being so to any extent. The nativist tendencies seems to be a bit of an enigma, what are 'nativist tendencies'? Does that mean politically looking after one's own citizens or does it mean giving preference to one's own ethnic group. Most countries do indeed give preference to native cultures but not necessarily to ethnic groups and as far as I can see the AfD are no different to many. As regards 'populist' in your definition above it seems to be "a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups:" for the life of me I cannot see what is wrong with that or why it should be denigrated at all, it seems the very essence of democracy. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 20, 2024 14:30:18 GMT
I was educating you on what an actual debate is . When you found out that a debate is not just you pontificating and telling posters who don’t agree with you that they ‘ have a blank area in their mind , or are bias , or are immature etc etc you whine that others are ‘ forcing their opinions on you ‘. You haven’t stopped . In fact now you are back to projecting your mental deficiencies at me. You actually proved just how wrong your were to want to force your false claim that your interpretation of debate was the only way to debate, so thanks. Its not the first time that your interpretation of matters has proved to be wrong. Unfortunately there is no chance of you opening your mind in an honest serious debating way. That would just cramp your whinging style. So I will ignore your lies, insinuations and denigrations in the future, but if they get too nasty, as they have done in the past, or too prolific, I will have no problem in reporting you. BYE.As I said I was educating you on what an actual debate is. You chose to lie and claim that I was ‘ forcing my opinions on you ‘. You project your own mental deficiencies in the majority of your posts ( to me and others ) and many posters on here consider you a troll and a nuisance . Your threats of crying to the mods are as pathetic as they are frequent. |
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Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2024 16:06:47 GMT
"Alternative for Germany (German: Alternative für Deutschland, AfD, German pronunciation: [aːʔɛfˈdeː] ⓘ) is a far-right and right-wing populist political party in Germany. Look up the definition of Far-Right and Fascism for yourself. Then maybe you will stop misleading yourself.I'll leave Fascism aside for a minute but looking at Wiki for far right I got "a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian, often also including nativist tendencies." But Fascism is a product of extreme for-right politics. As I have already pointed out. Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco, Hitler. All extreme right-wingers that murdered, tortured and raped thousands of people, and all because they thought differently to the Rightists. Say no more, there you have posted it in a nutshell. Well done. |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 20, 2024 16:59:01 GMT
I'll leave Fascism aside for a minute but looking at Wiki for far right I got "a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian, often also including nativist tendencies." But Fascism is a product of extreme for-right politics. As I have already pointed out. Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco, Hitler. All extreme right-wingers that murdered, tortured and raped thousands of people, and all because they thought differently to the Rightists. Say no more, there you have posted it in a nutshell. Well done. I have posted the definition perhaps you can help by indicating which policies fit that definition. Strange as it may seem you calling them RW does not make them so unless you can indicate why they are RW. All that currently seems to be the case is that others call them RW so they are. I repeat many of their policies are leftish leaning and certainly democratic, they lean towards Nationalism but that is not a specifically RW trait as many LW governments have been Nationalist especially when Nationalising industry and natural resources. |
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Post by see2 on Sept 20, 2024 19:05:37 GMT
But Fascism is a product of extreme for-right politics. As I have already pointed out. Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco, Hitler. All extreme right-wingers that murdered, tortured and raped thousands of people, and all because they thought differently to the Rightists. Say no more, there you have posted it in a nutshell. Well done. I have posted the definition perhaps you can help by indicating which policies fit that definition. Strange as it may seem you calling them RW does not make them so unless you can indicate why they are RW. All that currently seems to be the case is that others call them RW so they are. I repeat many of their policies are leftish leaning and certainly democratic, they lean towards Nationalism but that is not a specifically RW trait as many LW governments have been Nationalist especially when Nationalising industry and natural resources. Your stonewalling defense of the far-right changes nothing, but it probably is a good indication that you are a far-right supporter. Are you? |
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Post by sandypine on Sept 20, 2024 20:12:30 GMT
I have posted the definition perhaps you can help by indicating which policies fit that definition. Strange as it may seem you calling them RW does not make them so unless you can indicate why they are RW. All that currently seems to be the case is that others call them RW so they are. I repeat many of their policies are leftish leaning and certainly democratic, they lean towards Nationalism but that is not a specifically RW trait as many LW governments have been Nationalist especially when Nationalising industry and natural resources. Your stonewalling defense of the far-right changes nothing, but it probably is a good indication that you are a far-right supporter. Are you? Stonewalling? I am asking a simple question that you seem singularly unable to answer. I can easily answer the question you have just asked if you would only tell me what the far right is, what makes them far right and what specific policies fit into the far right mould, just one would be a start. |
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