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Post by sandypine on Sept 26, 2024 8:00:01 GMT
Seeing as Sandypine has given you a rundown of what looks like the AfD manifesto policies which look rather sensible to me, perhaps you can garner evidence that this party are far-right extremists hiding their agenda behind the words Sandypine posted? Otherwise, we can strike that off as unsubstantiated, bias opinion from you. See the explanations in the BBC comments posted above. Your dishonest attack on me changes nothing about the dangers of rightists in power as in Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco and Hitler. History exposes the extreme naivety of posters like yourself, Sandypine and SIM all of whom, judging by their posts, appear to be Rightist defending the move to the Right trend. Once again we have to ask what makes any trend 'Right'? I do not know. It seems to be caring about one's home nation and not wishing it to be overrun with people from other countries to the detriment of the home culture and the existing population. Is that what you mean? Is that the 'right trend'?
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Post by see2 on Sept 26, 2024 8:01:53 GMT
Your opening comment gives you away, and places the rest of your post as the usual excuse making garbage you inevitably come up with. Once again in your naivety, you ignore history. Be a man, and admit you are a Rightist. Not so, my opening comment was as regards the basis of the 'investigation' and the link to 'prove' that any group were far right based on a BBC investigation. This is the same BBC than managed to ignore accusations of widespread rape of young vulnerable girls and acted to see those making such accusations in court as racists and hate mongers in a similar investigation; the same BBC that cannot call a terrorist a terrorist and produce mealy mouthed totally inaccurate reasons as to why not, that any half interested person could put their fingers on as rampant hypocrisy; the same BBC who are supposed to 'assess' scientific and political reports as they are produced and rarely assess any that indicate badness or extremism from the right or that climate change is going to end the world shortly; the same BBC that overloaded stories of Brexit disaster imminent before and after the referendum and loaded all discussion with Remain advocates. I did however give you the good grace of reading it and assessing what it said and made comments accordingly I was hoping for the good grace to be reciprocated, in vain it seems People have lost trust in the BBC based on experience over the last twenty to thirty years and some of the above are reasons why. Many people have been on the ground at various events and observed that editorially how the BBC present a situation was often at odds with personal experience. So a BBC investigation risks not being an unbiased investigation it starts as an investigation find a specific circumstance and report that alone. As I said if I searched specifically for a Muslim extremist supporter in the Labour party I would probably find it but that is not an investigation of the Labour party and I would be disingenuous if I said it was. The 'link' produced information that you choose to ignore. That is the norm for Rightists. Followed by nasty deceptive insinuations, the dark side of propaganda, again all too common amongst Rightists. You are too cowardly to admit your are a Rightist, it doesn't matter because you post reveal your position clearly enough.
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Post by see2 on Sept 26, 2024 8:07:05 GMT
See the explanations in the BBC comments posted above. Your dishonest attack on me changes nothing about the dangers of rightists in power as in Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco and Hitler. History exposes the extreme naivety of posters like yourself, Sandypine and SIM all of whom, judging by their posts, appear to be Rightist defending the move to the Right trend. Once again we have to ask what makes any trend 'Right'? I do not know. It seems to be caring about one's home nation and not wishing it to be overrun with people from other countries to the detriment of the home culture and the existing population. Is that what you mean? Is that the 'right trend'? Please stop making your immature excuses for Rightism, history proves just how immature and naive you are when it comes to Far Right politics. It is clear you wish to ignore that reality making any attempt at grown up debate with you a waste of time.
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Post by Rebirth on Sept 26, 2024 9:22:10 GMT
See the explanations in the BBC comments posted above. Your dishonest attack on me changes nothing about the dangers of rightists in power as in Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco and Hitler. History exposes the extreme naivety of posters like yourself, Sandypine and SIM all of whom, judging by their posts, appear to be Rightist defending the move to the Right trend. Once again we have to ask what makes any trend 'Right'? I do not know. It seems to be caring about one's home nation and not wishing it to be overrun with people from other countries to the detriment of the home culture and the existing population. Is that what you mean? Is that the 'right trend'? Obviously he's too shit to even do the decent thing and give us his opinion on the very thing he's smearing most of the forum with, so just responds with deranged nonsense so people bump his threads. This is how some people spend their life.
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Post by sandypine on Sept 26, 2024 10:05:02 GMT
Not so, my opening comment was as regards the basis of the 'investigation' and the link to 'prove' that any group were far right based on a BBC investigation. This is the same BBC than managed to ignore accusations of widespread rape of young vulnerable girls and acted to see those making such accusations in court as racists and hate mongers in a similar investigation; the same BBC that cannot call a terrorist a terrorist and produce mealy mouthed totally inaccurate reasons as to why not, that any half interested person could put their fingers on as rampant hypocrisy; the same BBC who are supposed to 'assess' scientific and political reports as they are produced and rarely assess any that indicate badness or extremism from the right or that climate change is going to end the world shortly; the same BBC that overloaded stories of Brexit disaster imminent before and after the referendum and loaded all discussion with Remain advocates. I did however give you the good grace of reading it and assessing what it said and made comments accordingly I was hoping for the good grace to be reciprocated, in vain it seems People have lost trust in the BBC based on experience over the last twenty to thirty years and some of the above are reasons why. Many people have been on the ground at various events and observed that editorially how the BBC present a situation was often at odds with personal experience. So a BBC investigation risks not being an unbiased investigation it starts as an investigation find a specific circumstance and report that alone. As I said if I searched specifically for a Muslim extremist supporter in the Labour party I would probably find it but that is not an investigation of the Labour party and I would be disingenuous if I said it was. The 'link' produced information that you choose to ignore. That is the norm for Rightists. Followed by nasty deceptive insinuations, the dark side of propaganda, again all too common amongst Rightists. You are too cowardly to admit your are a Rightist, it doesn't matter because you post reveal your position clearly enough. Which information did I ignore? I read all the information and saw much of it was smearing all as being unacceptable with the actions of one and possibly two but the speaker explained his statements to my satisfaction if not to the BBC's but that is the nature of disagreement. The BBC did not refer to one policy of the AfD it was an investigation as to one or two of its members and their link to organisations further defined as far right. I cannot admit to being that which you choose not to define so that I can admit it.
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Post by sandypine on Sept 26, 2024 10:10:12 GMT
Once again we have to ask what makes any trend 'Right'? I do not know. It seems to be caring about one's home nation and not wishing it to be overrun with people from other countries to the detriment of the home culture and the existing population. Is that what you mean? Is that the 'right trend'? Please stop making your immature excuses for Rightism, history proves just how immature and naive you are when it comes to Far Right politics. It is clear you wish to ignore that reality making any attempt at grown up debate with you a waste of time. Reality is definable as a reality and is full of facts that make it reality. A few facts as regards what is Right and far Right would be of some assistance. So far the facts we have are " I say so", "other people say so", "the BBC say so", "people who know say so". Strange as it may seem I do not find that a compelling argument.
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Post by see2 on Sept 26, 2024 15:39:46 GMT
Please stop making your immature excuses for Rightism, history proves just how immature and naive you are when it comes to Far Right politics. It is clear you wish to ignore that reality making any attempt at grown up debate with you a waste of time. Reality is definable as a reality and is full of facts that make it reality. A few facts as regards what is Right and far Right would be of some assistance. So far the facts we have are " I say so", "other people say so", "the BBC say so", "people who know say so". Strange as it may seem I do not find that a compelling argument. More excuses by a Rightist ^^ which is why I don't buy the nonsense you post. You can fool yourself, but you cannot change history.
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Post by sandypine on Sept 26, 2024 23:25:16 GMT
Reality is definable as a reality and is full of facts that make it reality. A few facts as regards what is Right and far Right would be of some assistance. So far the facts we have are " I say so", "other people say so", "the BBC say so", "people who know say so". Strange as it may seem I do not find that a compelling argument. More excuses by a Rightist ^^ which is why I don't buy the nonsense you post. You can fool yourself, but you cannot change history. No but you can take the warnings from history. How do we recognise a group whose intent is to be a far right authoritarian government before they attain power and so avoid them? Even more so if they present LW policies to fool us. What attributes do they have that you see as the warning signs that must not be ignored?
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Post by buccaneer on Sept 27, 2024 7:42:08 GMT
Seeing as Sandypine has given you a rundown of what looks like the AfD manifesto policies which look rather sensible to me, perhaps you can garner evidence that this party are far-right extremists hiding their agenda behind the words Sandypine posted? Otherwise, we can strike that off as unsubstantiated, bias opinion from you. See the explanations in the BBC comments posted above. Your dishonest attack on me changes nothing about the dangers of rightists in power as in Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco and Hitler. History exposes the extreme naivety of posters like yourself, Sandypine and SIM all of whom, judging by their posts, appear to be Rightist defending the move to the Right trend. I did and they don't state any AfD policy which is far-right. The dishonesty in this discussion lies firmly at your door. You go round banding anyone far-right without any shred of evidence, then when pushed you say the 'German people say they are, so take it up with them'. And then when you are found wanting you start banding names like Galtieri, Pinochet, France and Hitler about - how do these figures correlate with what is only your assertion based on 'what the German people say' with the AfD party? If we are so naive, and you are so superior in spotting these far-right extremists, and as Sandy has asked you numerous times what are we supposed to be looking for when playing 'thought police'? As so far, you have no shred of evidence that the party are far-right. Their policies seem sound enough and not too controversial to be democratic enough to vote for. Please, lead us out of our naivety and show us what you allegedly know.
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Post by Orac on Sept 27, 2024 7:48:23 GMT
If a party is 'far right', you would have thought it would be a simple matter to find either three policies that are very right wing or, alternatively, one policy that is extremely right wing.
Labeling moderate-ish parties as extreme is a tactic used by extremists themselves.
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Post by see2 on Sept 27, 2024 8:06:08 GMT
Once again we have to ask what makes any trend 'Right'? I do not know. It seems to be caring about one's home nation and not wishing it to be overrun with people from other countries to the detriment of the home culture and the existing population. Is that what you mean? Is that the 'right trend'? Obviously he's too shit to even do the decent thing and give us his opinion on the very thing he's smearing most of the forum with, so just responds with deranged nonsense so people bump his threads. This is how some people spend their life. I see a Rightist with authoritarian traits ^^ So typical of the desire of Rightists to impose their needs upon others. Giving my opinion on this matter is a waste of time because because it would just be ignored which is why I leave it up to history to decide what far-Right is. As in Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco and Hitler. They prove the madness and the dangers of moving to the right of politics. My advice is don't tolerate far right nonsense at any level.
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Post by see2 on Sept 27, 2024 8:11:17 GMT
If a party is 'far right', you would have thought it would be a simple matter to find either three policies that are very right wing or, alternatively, one policy that is extremely right wing. Labeling moderate-ish parties as extreme is a tactic used by extremists themselves. Which is why I would never do it. For instance, I never claimed or named the German AfD as far right, the German political system did. My message is 'beware of the far right', i.e. don't open opportunities for them to take power.
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Post by Orac on Sept 27, 2024 8:23:13 GMT
If a party is 'far right', you would have thought it would be a simple matter to find either three policies that are very right wing or, alternatively, one policy that is extremely right wing. Labeling moderate-ish parties as extreme is a tactic used by extremists themselves. Which is why I would never do it. For instance, I never claimed or named the German AfD as far right, the German political system did. My message is 'beware of the far right', i.e. don't open opportunities for them to take power. I guess some posters were hoping you had an opinion of your own. It seems to me that you are opportunistically riding on the coat-tails of an opinion you can't justify.
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Post by see2 on Sept 27, 2024 8:34:27 GMT
See the explanations in the BBC comments posted above. Your dishonest attack on me changes nothing about the dangers of rightists in power as in Galtieri, Pinochet, Franco and Hitler. History exposes the extreme naivety of posters like yourself, Sandypine and SIM all of whom, judging by their posts, appear to be Rightist defending the move to the Right trend. I did and they don't state any AfD policy which is far-right. The dishonesty in this discussion lies firmly at your door. You go round banding anyone far-right without any shred of evidence, then when pushed you say the 'German people say they are, so take it up with them'. And then when you are found wanting you start banding names like Galtieri, Pinochet, France and Hitler about - how do these figures correlate with what is only your assertion based on 'what the German people say' with the AfD party? If we are so naive, and you are so superior in spotting these far-right extremists, and as Sandy has asked you numerous times what are we supposed to be looking for when playing 'thought police'? As so far, you have no shred of evidence that the party are far-right. Their policies seem sound enough and not too controversial to be democratic enough to vote for. Please, lead us out of our naivety and show us what you allegedly know. 1. A dishonest unprovable comment by you, while pointing the finger of dishonesty at me, tut tut. 2. Its true, the German political system sees the AfG as Far-Right. 3. Galtieri (who apparently went to Mass every day), Pinochet, Franco and Hitler were all from the far-right, they are the proof that Far-Right politics should be avoided. 4. Tut tut, I make no claims about who is far-right, I criticise Rightists, especially those who attempt to defend the Far-Right. I criticise the trend for people to slide to the right of politics because IMO that is a slide into a dangerous area of politics. AfG policies may sound reasonable, but clearly they are not going to show their fangs at this point, you will only see their fangs once they gain control. Remember, there were British and French citizens who were prepared to fight for Nazi Germany. These sort of trashy far-right extremists probably exist in every Western country. Don't encourage them.
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Post by see2 on Sept 27, 2024 8:38:40 GMT
Which is why I would never do it. For instance, I never claimed or named the German AfD as far right, the German political system did. My message is 'beware of the far right', i.e. don't open opportunities for them to take power. I guess some posters were hoping you had an opinion of your own. It seems to me that you are opportunistically riding on the coat-tails of an opinion you can't justify. There is no need for opinion on the horrors of right-wing extremism, its all there in the history books. Why so many people choose to ignore it beggars belief.
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