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Post by Einhorn on Dec 5, 2022 0:31:15 GMT
Your position is contradictory. You're opposed to protectionism, but oddly you also support it. You say that because you didn’t read the first line if the post and don’t like your own contradictory position that has been pointed out in the second part I'm saying that because you and your Brexit-supporting mates are contradictory. You want protection against the importation of cheap labour. Yet, you criticise the EU for being protectionist. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 5, 2022 0:36:19 GMT
You say that because you didn’t read the first line if the post and don’t like your own contradictory position that has been pointed out in the second part I'm saying that because you and your Brexit-supporting mates are contradictory. You want protection against the importation of cheap labour. Yet, you criticise the EU for being protectionist. Nope your saying that because you want unlimited migration into the UK knowing that it stagnates wages and effects the people on the lower wage scale but at the same time blame the Tories for low wages . See I can do that . |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 5, 2022 1:09:09 GMT
I'm saying that because you and your Brexit-supporting mates are contradictory. You want protection against the importation of cheap labour. Yet, you criticise the EU for being protectionist. Nope your saying that because you want unlimited migration into the UK knowing that it stagnates wages and effects the people on the lower wage scale but at the same time blame the Tories for low wages . See I can do that . No, I'm saying you're being contradictory. I thought I made that clear. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 7:31:13 GMT
Whatever you say. But it looks like you don't have anecdotes about British workers working or willing to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day for weeks at a time. Yes , it did go over your head . Thanks for confirming it. No need to thank me -- I just wanted to clarify the inconsistencies in your previous post. But you're welcome! Next time, hopefully, your bases will be more factual than anecdotal. |
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Post by patman post on Dec 5, 2022 15:14:39 GMT
Don't understand.
I earn fees for my employers, who can replace me, and the team I work with, anytime they choose.
Privately, we were originally clients of an architect several years ago, who recommended a couple of builders. After all insurances and licences were checked and verified, we engaged one, and their team turned out to be predominately European. As they worked well, we have used them since, and will continue to do so. All quoted and invoiced work. No cash in hand.
Not sure what your beef is...
I haven’t got a ‘ beef’. You are lucky in that you are not exposed to a younger more hard working person with nothing to lose taking your job. Its certainly not because no one could . So it’s ok if it happens to others , right? For our private work, we selected our architect (Turkish) from a list of recommendations by a local estate agent (Mauritian) — we’d got to know him through using his firm to rent out our first property — and both had been residents for years. The architect recommended a couple of building companies. I think the reps of both we spoke to were Polish. We made our choice on attitude and price. We do the same for any work we need doing that our usual contractor can’t do. We don’t select on price alone. Reference my work life, I’m 41 and am still energetic enough not to worry over any problems my employer would have about my effort or effectiveness. I’m still bringing in business and earning fees from existing and new clients. I can see the problems caused by immigrant workers coming in and undercutting local workers. However, new arrivals were frequently employed because the local workforce — especially semi-skilled — had inflated ideas of their worth. Murdoch used one union to strip the mafia-type hold the print unions had over all areas of the print. In higher skilled areas, dentists were a prime example where the incumbents selected more profitable private work over NHS patients. Many Polish dentists arrived and eased the shortage. Now many have gone, London is again experiencing a shortage. Electricians, heating engineers, plumbers, etc, were charging sky high prices. Newcomers eased the costs — even so, there are still well-known franchise type companies charging too much to unwary clients… |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 16:17:58 GMT
I haven’t got a ‘ beef’. You are lucky in that you are not exposed to a younger more hard working person with nothing to lose taking your job. Its certainly not because no one could . So it’s ok if it happens to others , right? .... I can see the problems caused by immigrant workers coming in and undercutting local workers. However, new arrivals were frequently employed because the local workforce — especially semi-skilled — had inflated ideas of their worth. Murdoch used one union to strip the mafia-type hold the print unions had over all areas of the print. In higher skilled areas, dentists were a prime example where the incumbents selected more profitable private work over NHS patients. Many Polish dentists arrived and eased the shortage. Now many have gone, London is again experiencing a shortage. Electricians, heating engineers, plumbers, etc, were charging sky high prices. Newcomers eased the costs — even so, there are still well-known franchise type companies charging too much to unwary clients… Well said. And I totally agree. I must say, though, that this may be a bit too consumerist or consumer-leaning for some. |
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Post by patman post on Dec 5, 2022 17:32:54 GMT
.... I can see the problems caused by immigrant workers coming in and undercutting local workers. However, new arrivals were frequently employed because the local workforce — especially semi-skilled — had inflated ideas of their worth. Murdoch used one union to strip the mafia-type hold the print unions had over all areas of the print. In higher skilled areas, dentists were a prime example where the incumbents selected more profitable private work over NHS patients. Many Polish dentists arrived and eased the shortage. Now many have gone, London is again experiencing a shortage. Electricians, heating engineers, plumbers, etc, were charging sky high prices. Newcomers eased the costs — even so, there are still well-known franchise type companies charging too much to unwary clients… Well said. And I totally agree. I must say, though, that this may a bit be a too consumerist or consumer-leaning for some. I guess most voters are influenced by their experience as consumers, and the economy. Nevertheless, their political beliefs and family allegiances probably dictate where they put their cross on the ballot paper — although years of neglect by Labour, and a charismatic Tory conman, persuaded many previous Labour voters to go for Boris. I think it’s too soon to say what will be the main influences in the next election (the economy, cost of living, immigration, Lords reform, etc), but something will probably grab the headlines. At the moment, Labour looks like a shoe-in. But who knows…? |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 5, 2022 17:35:44 GMT
I haven’t got a ‘ beef’. You are lucky in that you are not exposed to a younger more hard working person with nothing to lose taking your job. Its certainly not because no one could . So it’s ok if it happens to others , right? For our private work, we selected our architect (Turkish) from a list of recommendations by a local estate agent (Mauritian) — we’d got to know him through using his firm to rent out our first property — and both had been residents for years. The architect recommended a couple of building companies. I think the reps of both we spoke to were Polish. We made our choice on attitude and price. We do the same for any work we need doing that our usual contractor can’t do. We don’t select on price alone. Reference my work life, I’m 41 and am still energetic enough not to worry over any problems my employer would have about my effort or effectiveness. I’m still bringing in business and earning fees from existing and new clients. I can see the problems caused by immigrant workers coming in and undercutting local workers. However, new arrivals were frequently employed because the local workforce — especially semi-skilled — had inflated ideas of their worth. Murdoch used one union to strip the mafia-type hold the print unions had over all areas of the print. In higher skilled areas, dentists were a prime example where the incumbents selected more profitable private work over NHS patients. Many Polish dentists arrived and eased the shortage. Now many have gone, London is again experiencing a shortage. Electricians, heating engineers, plumbers, etc, were charging sky high prices. Newcomers eased the costs — even so, there are still well-known franchise type companies charging too much to unwary clients… are you in favour of importing cheap labour to undercut British workers in every sector of the economy? |
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Post by patman post on Dec 5, 2022 18:01:02 GMT
are you in favour of importing cheap labour to undercut British workers in every sector of the economy? No. Are you in favour of paying over the odds for substandard work just to keep immigrants out…? |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 5, 2022 18:13:40 GMT
are you in favour of importing cheap labour to undercut British workers in every sector of the economy? No. Are you in favour of paying over the odds for substandard work just to keep immigrants out…? You have never had substandard work from an immigrant? |
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Post by patman post on Dec 5, 2022 18:52:38 GMT
Honestly, no. But we’ve only been buying in services for about 10 years, and we’ve chosen carefully…
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Post by sandypine on Dec 5, 2022 22:19:25 GMT
.... I can see the problems caused by immigrant workers coming in and undercutting local workers. However, new arrivals were frequently employed because the local workforce — especially semi-skilled — had inflated ideas of their worth. Murdoch used one union to strip the mafia-type hold the print unions had over all areas of the print. In higher skilled areas, dentists were a prime example where the incumbents selected more profitable private work over NHS patients. Many Polish dentists arrived and eased the shortage. Now many have gone, London is again experiencing a shortage. Electricians, heating engineers, plumbers, etc, were charging sky high prices. Newcomers eased the costs — even so, there are still well-known franchise type companies charging too much to unwary clients… Well said. And I totally agree. I must say, though, that this may a bit be a too consumerist or consumer-leaning for some. An inflated idea of worth is only that if people will not pay it. If the price is too high market forces will tend to favour cheaper. Spreading the labour market umbrella removes at a stroke the only things that the tradesman has as trading bargaining chips and that is availability and cost. Once the market is flooded then the price comes down and that is the intent. Then tradesmen start to work for peanuts as they did do in the early nineties when they were scrabbling for work because there was a glut of tradesmen and a shortage of work which carried on for a good few years. They then find that shortages of tradesmen no longer exist and the chances of making a bob or two in the good times vanish. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 6, 2022 7:54:21 GMT
It's certainly interesting that it is now openly admitted that a desire to be in the EU is to keep the wages of the British working man low.
Although how this is supposed to drive support for EU membership I'm rather unclear.
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Post by oracle75 on Dec 6, 2022 14:20:31 GMT
It's certainly interesting that it is now openly admitted that a desire to be in the EU is to keep the wages of the British working man low. Although how this is supposed to drive support for EU membership I'm rather unclear. The government was obviously thinking only about wage depression in private industries, which are all that has been mentioned in this thread. Because now the immigrants who worked in public paid jobs have gone home, the government refuses to fulfil what it offered and pay public sector workers more. As usual, the Tories expected the private sector to do the heavy lifting but refuses to take responsibility for doing what it promised in the public sector. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 6, 2022 18:06:40 GMT
It's certainly interesting that it is now openly admitted that a desire to be in the EU is to keep the wages of the British working man low. Although how this is supposed to drive support for EU membership I'm rather unclear. The government was obviously thinking only about wage depression in private industries, which are all that has been mentioned in this thread. Because now the immigrants who worked in public paid jobs have gone home, the government refuses to fulfil what it offered and pay public sector workers more.
As usual, the Tories expected the private sector to do the heavy lifting but refuses to take responsibility for doing what it promised in the public sector. Well the immigrants who worked in the public sector have not gone home and public sector pay is quite generous. |
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