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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2022 16:20:27 GMT
We have a small portfolio of residential property in north and east London, bought and converted for letting. Most of the original conversion and refurbishing work was done by teams of mostly east Europeans. We also use them for maintenance. They start at 8am and leave at 6pm — except for decorating, when they occasionally work until 9pm.
We didn't initially choose eastern Europeans — the firms were recommended to us by our architect. We have used a firm from Essex for brick repair and repointing. They started at 10:30am and left about 3:30pm and left the scaffolding up for almost a year. Some work has had to be redone.
Guess who we now stick with...?
Small children so you don't have to pay them much and they can repoint the inside of a chimney? Hopefully East European children because they can work far longer than UK children and eat less. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 4, 2022 16:23:31 GMT
Small children so you don't have to pay them much and they can repoint the inside of a chimney? Hopefully East European children because they can work far longer than UK children and eat less. They probably do work harder and speak better English as well. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2022 16:27:59 GMT
Hopefully East European children because they can work far longer than UK children and eat less. They probably do work harder and speak better English as well. They study English in between their 18 hr working days and 5 hours sleep they are allowed each day . |
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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 4, 2022 16:31:54 GMT
They probably do work harder and speak better English as well. They study English in between their 18 hr working days and 5 hours sleep they are allowed each day . I dunno Bentley, I think you are in a losing battle when you criticise an employer for using the hardest working employees available. Have you ever been a boss? |
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Post by patman post on Dec 4, 2022 16:39:03 GMT
I no longer do a manual job — though I have worked right through the night on occasion to complete presentations and/or reports... I’m sure there is a young person who can do everything you do for longer and less pay. Not to hand when the work was needed to be done — even if your supposition were correct... |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2022 16:41:12 GMT
I’m sure there is a young person who can do everything you do for longer and less pay. Not to hand when the work was needed to be done — even if your supposition were correct... I suspect that you have never put that to the test. |
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Post by patman post on Dec 4, 2022 16:45:31 GMT
Never needed to — the jobs had to be done. I'd been involved in the initial research. And I was there and available.
It's called meeting commitments and client service...
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2022 16:51:35 GMT
They study English in between their 18 hr working days and 5 hours sleep they are allowed each day . I dunno Bentley, I think you are in a losing battle when you criticise an employer for using the hardest working employees available. Have you ever been a boss? I don’t criticise the bosses . Although the point that I made about working conditions seem to have been missed .. Quote ..“As for hardworking …the East Europeans that come over here were mainly young , itinerant people with nothing to lose. They not only ignored the health and safety laws but afaik they were unaware of them. Initially they were agency workers recruited in their home countries , given a place in a flat and transported to the workplace. As they were young , dumb and given more money than they ever would at home , they worked seven days a week , 12 hours a day for weeks at a time .” You might think it’s ok to ship in young itinerant workers who will undercut the present workers and stagnate the wages but that’s because it either didn’t happen to you or you think it couldn’t . It seems the same people who say that want the workers to have a fair wage are the same ones supporting the very opposite. The ones who claim that some bosses are grasping and unfair are supporting them doing that very thing. One might wonder what they would say if the NHS forced the workforce to work 7 x 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time and freezes all of the HCAs wages until they were reduced to minimum wage . |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2022 16:52:21 GMT
Never needed to — the jobs had to be done. I'd been involved in the initial research. And I was there and available. It's called meeting commitments and client service... It’s called getting away with it . There’s an East European somewhere who can do your job better than you for less wages . |
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Post by patman post on Dec 4, 2022 17:02:56 GMT
Never needed to — the jobs had to be done. I'd been involved in the initial research. And I was there and available. It's called meeting commitments and client service... It’s called getting away with it . There’s an East European somewhere who can do your job better than you for less wages . None of us is indispensable... |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2022 17:07:00 GMT
It’s called getting away with it . There’s an East European somewhere who can do your job better than you for less wages . None of us is indispensable... Exactly . You are ( as yet) not a victim of an employer taking on more compliant, ignorant and/ or young employees that will do anything to take what have but you do seem to support them. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2022 17:10:31 GMT
TBH anyone who whines about the Tories ,tells us that workers need a rise and at the same time supports mass immigration and it’s effects on wage stagnation and working practices is a hypocrite of the highest order Imo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2022 17:25:52 GMT
"They worked seven days a week, 12 hours a day for weeks at a time." -- That is hard work so these Eastern Europeans must really be more hardworking than their British counterparts. Unless, of course, you have anecdotes about British workers working as hard as, if not harder than, them. If you are economically active, then you are a great asset to us or to any country. That went over your head then..🙄 Whatever you say. But it looks like you don't have anecdotes about British workers working or willing to work 7 days a week, 12 hours a day for weeks at a time. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2022 17:41:56 GMT
I dunno Bentley, I think you are in a losing battle when you criticise an employer for using the hardest working employees available. Have you ever been a boss? I don’t criticise the bosses . Although the point that I made about working conditions seem to have been missed .. Quote ..“As for hardworking …the East Europeans that come over here were mainly young , itinerant people with nothing to lose. They not only ignored the health and safety laws but afaik they were unaware of them. Initially they were agency workers recruited in their home countries , given a place in a flat and transported to the workplace. As they were young , dumb and given more money than they ever would at home , they worked seven days a week , 12 hours a day for weeks at a time .” You might think it’s ok to ship in young itinerant workers who will undercut the present workers and stagnate the wages but that’s because it either didn’t happen to you or you think it couldn’t . It seems the same people who say that want the workers to have a fair wage are the same ones supporting the very opposite. The ones who claim that some bosses are grasping and unfair are supporting them doing that very thing. One might wonder what they would say if the NHS forced the workforce to work 7 x 12 hour shifts for weeks at a time and freezes all of the HCAs wages until they were reduced to minimum wage . Unfortunately, it does sound like the point being made is not about the supposedly poor working conditions but the idea that Eastern Europeans accept such working conditions and thus, "stagnate the wages." |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 4, 2022 17:46:42 GMT
None of us is indispensable... Exactly . You are ( as yet) not a victim of an employer taking on more compliant, ignorant and/ or young employees that will do anything to take what have but you do seem to support them. So, there are good and bad kinds of protectionism? It's bad for the EU to protect jobs in the EU by imposing tariffs, but it's good for the UK to protect jobs in the UK by imposing limits on immigration? |
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