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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 19, 2022 12:38:57 GMT
So that was the EU anthem the French sang along to be fore the World Cup final yesterday was it? Sounded a lot like La Marseillaise to me. Ever heard the phrase Crown Court? Who is the King of the EU Red? You think Germans are sitting in Dortmund bars drinking San Miguel and the most popular beer in Athens is Guinness? As I said, the EU's direction of travel must be obvious, even to a diehard Europhile. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 19, 2022 12:48:59 GMT
So that was the EU anthem the French sang along to be fore the World Cup final yesterday was it? Sounded a lot like La Marseillaise to me. Ever heard the phrase Crown Court? Who is the King of the EU Red? You think Germans are sitting in Dortmund bars drinking San Miguel and the most popular beer in Athens is Guinness? As I said, the EU's direction of travel must be obvious, even to a diehard Europhile. Yes, removal of barriers to trade. I struggle to see why anyone would be opposed to that. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 19, 2022 12:52:55 GMT
Those with written constitutions. It's not the EU's fault that the UK is one of the least democratic countries in Western Europe. The UK has an anachronistic system that makes Parliament rather than the people sovereign. There was absolutely nothing the EU could have done about that. You're waffling. You accuse the UK of being undemocratic because we 'democratically' voted to leave your wonderful EU. LOL. You talk about constitutions, what about former European countries, now subservient EU states, who have written constitutions? Most weren't asked if they wanted to join a European political union, and the few who were asked and voted no, had to vote again. Is this your idea of European democracy? I think Mikhail Gorbachev was right, don't you? As Herr Juncker famously said: " there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties".
Written constitution indeed lol. Get in the bin Einy. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 19, 2022 12:55:10 GMT
Those with written constitutions. It's not the EU's fault that the UK is one of the least democratic countries in Western Europe. The UK has an anachronistic system that makes Parliament rather than the people sovereign. There was absolutely nothing the EU could have done about that. You're waffling. You accuse the UK of being undemocratic because we 'democratically' voted to leave your wonderful EU. LOL. You talk about constitutions, what about former European countries, now subservient EU states, who have written constitutions? Most weren't asked if they wanted to join a European political union, and the few who were asked and voted no, had to vote again. Is this your idea of European democracy? I think Mikhail Gorbachev was right, don't you? As Herr Juncker famously said: " there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties".
Written constitution indeed lol. Get in the bin Einy. Which don't have a written constitution, Red? And hark at Red, of all people, celebrating diversity!!  |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 19, 2022 12:57:08 GMT
Yes, removal of barriers to trade. I struggle to see why anyone would be opposed to that. Removal of trade barriers is what the EEC or Common Market was for, which is why we voted to remain a member. But lets not confuse the nonpolitical EEC with the very centralized and very political EU, the two are not remotely similar which is why John Major was determined not to allow a referendum when he handed the UK to the EU in 1992. Anything else  |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 19, 2022 13:01:14 GMT
Yes, removal of barriers to trade. I struggle to see why anyone would be opposed to that. Anything else Yes. Are you aware that you are in a relatively small minority now? You're part of the 32% that thinks leaving the EU was a good idea. If Major was wrong not to have a referendum so as to give a voice to the will of the people, why isn't it wrong for Sunak not to do the same? Oh, yeah: if the people rather than Parliament are sovereign, how was Major able to take the UK into the EU against the supposed will of the people? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 19, 2022 13:14:53 GMT
Yes. Are you aware that you are in a relatively small minority now? You're part of the 32% that thinks leaving the EU was a good idea. If Major was wrong not to have a referendum so as to give a voice to the will of the people, why isn't it wrong for Sunak not to do the same? Oh, yeah: if the people rather than Parliament are sovereign, how was Major able to take the UK into the EU against the supposed will of the people? Don't talk nonsense, 32% indeed lol. And even if that were the case, are you suggesting the government should legislate on the results of polls? Einy, you're not making a lot of sense. To compare Major to Sunak is palpable nonsense. You just want a second referendum because you lost the first. It's the EU way, endless referendums until the desired result is achieved. This is becoming tiresome. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 19, 2022 13:20:43 GMT
Anything else Yes. Are you aware that you are in a relatively small minority now? You're part of the 32% that thinks leaving the EU was a good idea. If Major was wrong not to have a referendum so as to give a voice to the will of the people, why isn't it wrong for Sunak not to do the same? Oh, yeah: if the people rather than Parliament are sovereign, how was Major able to take the UK into the EU against the supposed will of the people? Why would Sunak call for a referendum to re join the EU? It doesn’t matter how many people tick the ‘ bad idea’ box on the survey , the UK is no longer in the the EU. Clearly the ex remainers are the ones harking back to a past that has gone. The Brexiters seem to be the ones looking to the future . |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 19, 2022 13:23:05 GMT
Yes. Are you aware that you are in a relatively small minority now? You're part of the 32% that thinks leaving the EU was a good idea. If Major was wrong not to have a referendum so as to give a voice to the will of the people, why isn't it wrong for Sunak not to do the same? Oh, yeah: if the people rather than Parliament are sovereign, how was Major able to take the UK into the EU against the supposed will of the people? Don't talk nonsense, 32% indeed lol. And even if that were the case, are you suggesting the government should legislate on the results of polls? Einy, you're not making a lot of sense. To compare Major to Sunak is palpable nonsense. You just want a second referendum because you lost the first. It's the EU way, endless referendums until the desired result is achieved. This is becoming tiresome. Why? What's the fundamental difference? I would say there's even more strength to the argument that Sunak should have a referendum, given that there are currently polls suggesting high levels of dissatisfaction with Brexit, but the only poll from the time of Major's taking the UK into the EU showed support for the move. You mentioned the EU's direction of travel earlier; what do you think the direction of travel for the UK is, given that polls are showing dissatisfaction levels of between 57% and 65%? |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 19, 2022 13:25:42 GMT
Yes. Are you aware that you are in a relatively small minority now? You're part of the 32% that thinks leaving the EU was a good idea. If Major was wrong not to have a referendum so as to give a voice to the will of the people, why isn't it wrong for Sunak not to do the same? Oh, yeah: if the people rather than Parliament are sovereign, how was Major able to take the UK into the EU against the supposed will of the people? Why would Sunak call for a referendum to re join the EU? It doesn’t matter how many people tick the ‘ bad idea’ box on the survey , the UK is no longer in the the EU. Clearly the ex remainers are the ones harking back to a past that has gone. The Brexiters seem to be the ones looking to the future . Sunak won't call for a referendum to rejoin the EU. Nor will Starmer. Starmer will at least attempt to make changes, though. At this point, it's impossible to say what they will be. However, it's logical to assume that the greater the level of dissatisfaction with the status quo, the bolder will be the suggestions for reform. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 19, 2022 13:27:39 GMT
Yes. Are you aware that you are in a relatively small minority now? You're part of the 32% that thinks leaving the EU was a good idea. If Major was wrong not to have a referendum so as to give a voice to the will of the people, why isn't it wrong for Sunak not to do the same? Oh, yeah: if the people rather than Parliament are sovereign, how was Major able to take the UK into the EU against the supposed will of the people? Don't talk nonsense, 32% indeed lol. And even if that were the case, are you suggesting the government should legislate on the results of polls? Einy, you're not making a lot of sense. To compare Major to Sunak is palpable nonsense. You just want a second referendum because you lost the first. It's the EU way, endless referendums until the desired result is achieved. This is becoming tiresome. You didn't answer the question, Red. If the people are sovereign, how was Major able to take the UK into the EU against the will of the people? |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 19, 2022 13:39:10 GMT
Why would Sunak call for a referendum to re join the EU? It doesn’t matter how many people tick the ‘ bad idea’ box on the survey , the UK is no longer in the the EU. Clearly the ex remainers are the ones harking back to a past that has gone. The Brexiters seem to be the ones looking to the future . Sunak won't call for a referendum to rejoin the EU. Nor will Starmer. Starmer will at least attempt to make changes, though. At this point, it's impossible to say what they will be. However, it's logical to assume that the greater the level of dissatisfaction with the status quo, the bolder will be the suggestions for reform. You raised the question that if it was wrong for Major not to call for a referendum then why is it not wrong for Sunak not to call for a referendum . I answered the question . The only reasons for a closer relationship with the EU would be ones that promise an advantage to the UK. Harking back to pretend pre Brexit halcyon days won’t cut it. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 19, 2022 13:54:54 GMT
Sunak won't call for a referendum to rejoin the EU. Nor will Starmer. Starmer will at least attempt to make changes, though. At this point, it's impossible to say what they will be. However, it's logical to assume that the greater the level of dissatisfaction with the status quo, the bolder will be the suggestions for reform. Harking back to pretend pre Brexit halcyon days won’t cut it. Meh! It probably will. |
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Post by oracle75 on Dec 19, 2022 13:58:32 GMT
Those with written constitutions. It's not the EU's fault that the UK is one of the least democratic countries in Western Europe. The UK has an anachronistic system that makes Parliament rather than the people sovereign. There was absolutely nothing the EU could have done about that. You're waffling. You accuse the UK of being undemocratic because we 'democratically' voted to leave your wonderful EU. LOL. You talk about constitutions, what about former European countries, now subservient EU states, who have written constitutions? Most weren't asked if they wanted to join a European political union, and the few who were asked and voted no, had to vote again. Is this your idea of European democracy? I think Mikhail Gorbachev was right, don't you? As Herr Juncker famously said: " there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties".
Written constitution indeed lol. Get in the bin Einy. I get tired of hearing how the UK democratically voted to leave the EU. They voted because they believed the lies told to them by a bunch of opportunists who continued to lie when in government and when what they promised fell apart, they did too. The Brexit issue was couched in the idea that nothing serious could ever affect the UK. That the country could do what it wanted to because it had always been able to do so. After all they won the war 75 years ago. And when 4 years later something happened that proved that the UK was not unique or impervious to setbacks, the wonderful Tories emptied the treasury to replace what governments had failed to maintain and found ways to make money for their cronies too. If you want to talk about corruption, look no further than the House of Lords. The whole story is one of overarrogant crewmembers taking over a ship, promising gold just over the horizon, and crashing it on the rocks because they forgot to check for holes under the waterline. The Tory Brexit government couldn't organise a school trip let alone a country. The just wanted no brakes on whatever profits they could make. As for EU regulations, how's that working out? They are why the UK is suffocating under a mountain of paperwork and why so many small businesses went bankrupt. A country either continue to follow EU trade rules as a third country or it doesn't trade. And they don't get to veto or opt out of those rules. Today millions of people are realising that their democratic vote was one big con. And while they can't vote on the EU again, they can make sure the Tory Brexit liars are out in the silent cold for a long time. By the way, one condition of joining the EU is that the applicant is a democracy with a constitution and the other is that the decision to join must conform to a democratic vote as described in that Constitution. All countries were given a democratic vote on joining. Please post facts. Finally Ireland voted the second time on a revised proposal which was adjusted according to IRELAND'S request. Perhaps those who object to the EU could find a legitimate reason for doing so. So far there aren't any in Red's posts. And he makes up what he needs. For now the whole thing is pointless. Muddling through is going to have to do. And one day, the UK will apply to rejoin. And it will be up to the EU to decide. Right now the answer would be a loud no. So everyone is happy right now. Except for the UK. I wonder why? |
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Post by oracle75 on Dec 19, 2022 14:03:24 GMT
Harking back to pretend pre Brexit halcyon days won’t cut it. Meh! It probably will. There is no purpose in thinking about another referendum. The EU would not approve the UK's application. We need them more than they need us, and it was always so. |
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