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Post by sandypine on Aug 26, 2024 19:29:32 GMT
Imagine excusing throwing TWO MILLION pensioners into fuel poverty, many of whom will be disabled! This is not means testing, this is ideologically driven cruelty. Which public sector workers had 10 years of pay freezes? Also, you comparisons with a pensioner's income is just dumb. Public sector workers work in pay bands which they automatically travel up, they can also get promotions / increase qualifications / work overtime. In theory my missus is 8% down duing the Tory government, but in reality she is earnings miles more because she received TWO FREE MASTERS DEGREES to enable her to get promotions... and she gets the auto travel up the pay scales. What nonsense, the maximum Winter Fuel Allowance paid out to any pensioner is £300.00, but quite often it is £200.00. The 2024 pension increase was at a rate which many public sector workers could only dream of - 8.5%, equivelant to a £905.30 per year increase, and inflation is currently 2.2%. There are approximately 12 million pensinoers in the UK, of which several million are either "comfortably off", "well off" or "wealthy", most of these receive other incomes including private pensions, and most in this category pay no rent or mortgage. It is utterly absurd that tax payers, often working families who are struggling should be contributing towards the energy bills of people who are better off than they are. At the other end of the scale are less well off pensioners who are on basic state pension only, and who pay rent, all pensioners in this category will get assistance through Pension Credits and / or assistance with rent, and they will continue to receive Winter Fuel Allowance. I never stated that any public sector workers had "10 years of pay freezes", I stated that most public sector workers endured firstly a pay freeze, followed by years of below inflation pay rises. In 2013 the coalition governments Care Services Minister "Paul Burstow" criticised the Winter Fuel Payments, saying that 80% of those who receive the benefit do not need it. We will have our winter fuel payment stopped despite only being about 1000 above the minimum for pension credit but we live very cheaply and plan carefully and thus have quite good savings. We own our own house so no rent but pay for all repairs which arise, and they do with unnerving regularity. The rise will not cause us hardship but will mean we put less away for even older age and the younger generations whose call on the bank of mum and dad is not as infrequent as we would like. 'Need' of course is a pretty flexible word. We do not need it, but then I would say anyone with a Sky subscription does not 'need' it either, nor those down the pubs and clubs at the weekend, nor those with pets. Pension credit covers a lot and that 1000 we have extra is soon passed and exceeded as the 'needs' arise. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 26, 2024 21:37:14 GMT
Imagine excusing throwing TWO MILLION pensioners into fuel poverty, many of whom will be disabled! This is not means testing, this is ideologically driven cruelty. Which public sector workers had 10 years of pay freezes? Also, you comparisons with a pensioner's income is just dumb. Public sector workers work in pay bands which they automatically travel up, they can also get promotions / increase qualifications / work overtime. In theory my missus is 8% down duing the Tory government, but in reality she is earnings miles more because she received TWO FREE MASTERS DEGREES to enable her to get promotions... and she gets the auto travel up the pay scales. What nonsense, the maximum Winter Fuel Allowance paid out to any pensioner is £300.00, but quite often it is £200.00. The 2024 pension increase was at a rate which many public sector workers could only dream of - 8.5%, equivelant to a £905.30 per year increase, and inflation is currently 2.2%. There are approximately 12 million pensinoers in the UK, of which several million are either "comfortably off", "well off" or "wealthy", most of these receive other incomes including private pensions, and most in this category pay no rent or mortgage. It is utterly absurd that tax payers, often working families who are struggling should be contributing towards the energy bills of people who are better off than they are.
At the other end of the scale are less well off pensioners who are on basic state pension only, and who pay rent, all pensioners in this category will get assistance through Pension Credits and / or assistance with rent, and they will continue to receive Winter Fuel Allowance. I never stated that any public sector workers had "10 years of pay freezes", I stated that most public sector workers endured firstly a pay freeze, followed by years of below inflation pay rises. In 2013 the coalition governments Care Services Minister "Paul Burstow" criticised the Winter Fuel Payments, saying that 80% of those who receive the benefit do not need it. So, to be clear, you are against all universal benefits?.. you would bring in means testing for everything.. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 26, 2024 21:41:10 GMT
..and there was me thinking this was a scare story from GB News..
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Post by witchfinder on Aug 26, 2024 22:31:44 GMT
The State Pension is not a universal benefit or a benefit of any description, it is "The State Pension".
This story is about the views of a very small handfull of Labour Party advisors, and is not Labour Party policy, or government policy.
As a supporter of the Labour Party, I would be open to halting or reducing the State Pension to the very wealthy or super rich, but would be opposed to means testing the state pension based on the fact that a person owns a home of modest value.
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Post by dodgydave on Aug 26, 2024 23:00:39 GMT
So by "most" you are not including the 1 million+ what work in the NHS... that isn't "most" is it. The NHS had a two year freeze, then 1% till 2018... then they got quite a chunky three year deal. I'll accept that some elements of the civil service had long freezes... but to say "public sector workers had a 10 year freeze" is just incorrect. |
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Post by ratcliff on Aug 26, 2024 23:57:04 GMT
The State Pension is not a universal benefit or a benefit of any description, it is "The State Pension". This story is about the views of a very small handfull of Labour Party advisors, and is not Labour Party policy, or government policy. As a supporter of the Labour Party, I would be open to halting or reducing the State Pension to the very wealthy or super rich, but would be opposed to means testing the state pension based on the fact that a person owns a home of modest value. Those lovely entirely subjective words ''modest'' , ''need'', ''fair'', ''wealthy'' , ''handfull'' etc so beloved of lefties (but they can't define any of them) NB: surprisingly for a lefty you didn't know that OAP pension is administered by DWP and is a universal benefit It is a universal, non-means tested benefit available to all, so long as they have made the requisite National Insurance contributions or credits.
www.benefitsguide.co.uk/state-pension/#:~:text=It%20is%20a%20universal%2C%20non,National%20Insurance%20contributions%20or%20credits. |
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Post by sheepy on Aug 27, 2024 6:34:11 GMT
The State Pension is not a universal benefit or a benefit of any description, it is "The State Pension". This story is about the views of a very small handfull of Labour Party advisors, and is not Labour Party policy, or government policy. As a supporter of the Labour Party, I would be open to halting or reducing the State Pension to the very wealthy or super rich, but would be opposed to means testing the state pension based on the fact that a person owns a home of modest value. You can't if they paid their dues and any other pension or income they receive is already taxed. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 27, 2024 6:42:50 GMT
The State Pension is not a universal benefit or a benefit of any description, it is "The State Pension". This story is about the views of a very small handfull of Labour Party advisors, and is not Labour Party policy, or government policy. As a supporter of the Labour Party, I would be open to halting or reducing the State Pension to the very wealthy or super rich, but would be opposed to means testing the state pension based on the fact that a person owns a home of modest value. That is the definition of 'means testing' It is quite amusing how far the Labour Party has moved over the years. In times past they were ardently against means testing as an evil Tory plot to keep people in poverty - now they think it a great idea and want to expand it. How times change..   |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Aug 27, 2024 6:58:19 GMT
So by "most" you are not including the 1 million+ what work in the NHS... that isn't "most" is it. The NHS had a two year freeze, then 1% till 2018... then they got quite a chunky three year deal. I'll accept that some elements of the civil service had long freezes... but to say "public sector workers had a 10 year freeze" is just incorrect. Ok, Mr Pedantic: The Civil Service had below inflationary pay increases for 10 years.
Apart from the ones that had none.
But however you frame it, the point remains that most public sector workers had, in real terms, a pay cut every year for 10 years.
In my old role, the pay is now approximately 18% less in real terms than it was in 2010.
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Post by sheepy on Aug 27, 2024 6:59:25 GMT
I wouldn't mind if they came up with new excuses at least you could laugh at the folly of the voting public, but I guess as they think they keep working, out they come with the same ones, which is simply blame the other branch for all the woes people are going to receive.
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Post by sheepy on Aug 27, 2024 7:05:51 GMT
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Post by witchfinder on Aug 27, 2024 7:49:45 GMT
Why not blame the REAL culprits of the worst financial mess the UK has been in since the Second World War - THE CONSERVATIVES.
It was pretty obvious that they had run out of money and were hiding a huge black hole, all the signs were there.
Councils either going bankrupt or in desperate financial situations, our prisons service a total mess due to no investment, schools falling to pieces, NHS in a worse state than it was even in 1996 ( and it was bad then ), and yet we had Rishi Sunak flying around in hellicopters and private jets in a contract worth millions.
The Winter Fuel Payments was a nice idea introduced by a Labour government in better times, but as things are its a luxury we can no longer aford due to the previous government (lets repeat that line) ... due to the previous government.
Even the OBR admitted that borrowing and the deficit was getting out of control, as shown in Julys borrowing figures.
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Post by ratcliff on Aug 27, 2024 10:02:47 GMT
Don't know how he can say this bit with a straight face 'We ended the national strikes that have crippled our country for years, because I defy anyone to tell me that you can grow the economy when people can't get to work, because the transport system is broken, Train drivers immediately announced new strikes and Sir Kneelalot thinks working from home is the way to go - so why worry about trains? Good employers understand that for workers to stay motivated and productive they do need to be able to switch off and a culture of presenteeism can be damaging to productivity.” |
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Post by johnofgwent on Aug 27, 2024 10:03:06 GMT
He's going to say the budget will be painful
Well don't say I didn't warn you.
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Post by bancroft on Aug 27, 2024 10:05:55 GMT
Why not blame the REAL culprits of the worst financial mess the UK has been in since the Second World War - THE CONSERVATIVES. It was pretty obvious that they had run out of money and were hiding a huge black hole, all the signs were there. Councils either going bankrupt or in desperate financial situations, our prisons service a total mess due to no investment, schools falling to pieces, NHS in a worse state than it was even in 1996 ( and it was bad then ), and yet we had Rishi Sunak flying around in hellicopters and private jets in a contract worth millions. The Winter Fuel Payments was a nice idea introduced by a Labour government in better times, but as things are its a luxury we can no longer aford due to the previous government (lets repeat that line) ... due to the previous government. Even the OBR admitted that borrowing and the deficit was getting out of control, as shown in Julys borrowing figures. What is happening is that the trappings of neo-colonial empires are falling due to the rise of the Brics meaning clever financial fixes benefiting NATO and European countries are being broken. Govts now have to watch thier spending to avoid market attacks. One example India buys oil from Russia they were threatened by the Bush regime not to do this, 20 years on it has happened. |
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