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Post by Bentley on Aug 27, 2024 18:06:23 GMT
When the war is over they will be able to pay for those weapons. And your arguments are crap. Putin needs defeating. That's priority one. Once Putin is defeated, it will be necessary to engage with Russia and do a sort of Marshall plan, to help them come out of the cold and become a prosperous democracy. The ideal situation would be for NATO to no longer be needed one day and be peacefully disbanded. But as long as there are threats, like Putin is presently a threat, NATO is needed as much as I wish it wasn't. What arguments are crap? |
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Post by thomas on Aug 27, 2024 18:07:28 GMT
pretty much this Bentley. Wasting your time on any Ukraine thread vinny has either started or is participating in. you won't get any coherent discussion about this war from vinny. As we see in most threads , its not about debate with vinny , he merely want a platform to lecture from without any disagreement or debate. It never occurs to him there might be wider global politics at play here. Its simply good versus bad , toy soldier stuff. Yup. Every post comes with a cid history lesson and an attempt to refute something that you never said . Kiwpootin. he lost me a few years back , when he assured me the Russians had been reduced to fighting with shovels , and that is was merely a matter of days before they surrendered. Normally I scroll on by , sometimes, on occasion , when im finished cleaning out the sock drawer and have a spare few minutes , I sometimes indulge myself with him and have a laugh. Anyway. Is anyone winning yet ? Thats what I want to know? |
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Post by thomas on Aug 27, 2024 18:09:02 GMT
When the war is over they will be able to pay for those weapons. And your arguments are crap. Putin needs defeating. That's priority one. Once Putin is defeated, it will be necessary to engage with Russia and do a sort of Marshall plan, to help them come out of the cold and become a prosperous democracy. The ideal situation would be for NATO to no longer be needed one day and be peacefully disbanded. But as long as there are threats, like Putin is presently a threat, NATO is needed as much as I wish it wasn't.  |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 27, 2024 18:10:26 GMT
The idea that Ukraine should give back weapons in the middle of a war.
The idea that Ukraine should negotiate with an aggressor who has stolen their land without a hand of cards of their own.
Russia can have Kursk Oblast back when Putin withdraws from Donbas and Crimea.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 27, 2024 18:19:51 GMT
The idea that Ukraine should give back weapons in the middle of a war. The idea that Ukraine should negotiate with an aggressor who has stolen their land without a hand of cards of their own. Russia can have Kursk Oblast back when Putin withdraws from Donbas and Crimea. You said they didn’t need them . I never said that , I said that if the US turns off the tap Ukraine will have to settle . Can they? That’s nice of you . |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 27, 2024 18:24:22 GMT
Settle? Fuck me, you think that resisting being invaded is something to "settle"?
You CANNOT NEGOTIATE WITH THOSE WHO WANT TO KILL YOU.
That means fight to live, or be killed.
You take away their defence and more will die, as there is nothing to "settle".
Putin wants them dead.
Why do you think he bombs homes, schools, hospitals, power stations rather than sticking to military targets?
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Post by Bentley on Aug 27, 2024 18:25:48 GMT
Settle? Fuck me, you think that resisting being invaded is something to "settle"? You CANNOT NEGOTIATE WITH THOSE WHO WANT TO KILL YOU. That means fight to live, or be killed. You take away their defence and more will die, as there is nothing to "settle". Putin wants them dead. Why do you think he bombs homes, schools, hospitals, power stations rather than sticking to military targets? Well let’s hope the US doesn’t turn down the tap then , eh? |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 27, 2024 18:53:45 GMT
It won't.
Harris will continue to support Ukraine.
The UK, Germany and many other countries continue to support Ukraine as well.
Ukraine have also shown they can hit strategic targets with missiles of their own design and the Black Sea fleet have fled Sevastopol.
Russia is unable to mount a competent counterattack in Kursk.
It may already be too late for Putin. He's wasting weapons faster than he can build them, micromanaging this failed war personally, his commanders aren't allowed to take their own initiative and plan operations themselves.
By the time he decides what to do the Ukrainians have already expanded the territory they occupy in Kursk.
Once again, you are arguing from the flawed position that Ukraine should negotiate rather than condemning the ten years of attacks against their country and the illegal occupation of their land.
What Ukraine have done, is in compliance with the UN Charter.
What Putin has done is not.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 27, 2024 19:02:43 GMT
It won't. Harris will continue to support Ukraine. The UK, Germany and many other countries continue to support Ukraine as well. Ukraine have also shown they can hit strategic targets with missiles of their own design and the Black Sea fleet have fled Sevastopol. Russia is unable to mount a competent counterattack in Kursk. It may already be too late for Putin. He's wasting weapons faster than he can build them, micromanaging this failed war personally, his commanders aren't allowed to take their own initiative and plan operations themselves. By the time he decides what to do the Ukrainians have already expanded the territory they occupy in Kursk. Once again, you are arguing from the flawed position that Ukraine should negotiate rather than condemning the ten years of attacks against their country and the illegal occupation of their land. What Ukraine have done, is in compliance with the UN Charter. What Putin has done is not. I’m not arguing anything. I’m saying that the if the US turned off the tap Ukraine would have to negotiate. We know that because Zelensky is begging the US pardon to use US weapons as they want. And the UK ”President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has called on Sir Keir Starmer to "show your leadership" as he appealed to the government to allow Ukraine to use Western weapons in strikes against targets inside Russia.” news.sky.com/story/zelenskyy-to-visit-number-10-as-uk-promises-to-lead-crackdown-on-russias-shadow-fleet-13180442You have posted your fantasy about Ukraine not needing advanced weapons and making up strawmen to refute . |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 27, 2024 19:17:48 GMT
Negotiate what? Their suicide?
There is nothing to "negotiate".
Putin started this war ten years ago.
Our appeasement of him emboldened him and he cannot be appeased again.
Any pause in the war will only lead to Russian military re-armament and more war.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 27, 2024 19:22:57 GMT
Negotiate what? Their suicide? There is nothing to "negotiate". Putin started this war ten years ago. Our appeasement of him emboldened him and he cannot be appeased again. Any pause in the war will only lead to Russian military re-armament and more war. Let’s hope the Yanks keep the tap flowing then . |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 27, 2024 19:24:15 GMT
They will.
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Post by Bentley on Aug 27, 2024 19:25:27 GMT
As long as it suits them. |
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Post by Vinny on Aug 27, 2024 19:45:54 GMT
It does. For very little money (to them) their aid has greatly reduced the threat posed by the Putin dictatorship whose threats and bluster towards NATO was all hot air. See to it that Ukraine finish the job and that the defeat of Russia's invasion next year brings about the collapse of Putin's government via a military coup. And when Russia executes Putin. I recommend a PTRD-41. He'll know what it is, and how powerful it is, he likes his guns. He will be shitting himself. Face him sideways on. Aim half way between the knees and the hips. One shot, no coup de grace.  |
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Post by Bentley on Aug 27, 2024 20:20:50 GMT
It does. For very little money (to them) their aid has greatly reduced the threat posed by the Putin dictatorship whose threats and bluster towards NATO was all hot air. See to it that Ukraine finish the job and that the defeat of Russia's invasion next year brings about the collapse of Putin's government via a military coup. And when Russia executes Putin. I recommend a PTRD-41. He'll know what it is, and how powerful it is, he likes his guns. He will be shitting himself. Face him sideways on. Aim half way between the knees and the hips. One shot, no coup de grace. Indeed. The US has the chance to fight a proxy war with Russia with only Ukrainians fighting and dying . They wouldn’t pass that one up. Not interested in gun porn . |
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