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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 14, 2024 20:01:14 GMT
So Israel are trying to make them free by getting rid of Hamas who are hiding amongst civilians and children in the hopes that when collateral damage occurs they will get their way for a ceasefire to start again in a few years or months Israel are trying to get rid of Hamas so Gazans and Palestinian have no "military force" to oppose Israel when it tries to illegally seize the rest of Palestine.Netanyahu's Far Right coalition partners have been quite clear: Israel will claim all the land from the river to the sea, know less provocatively as Eretz Israel, its modern usage going back at least as far as Jabotinski. Likud's official policy is that from the river to the sea shall exclusively be a Jewish State. Funny how if non-Israelis use that term it is racist, but when Far Right Israelis use it, that's just fine. All The Best Considering Israel have legal claim over Palestinian land, I'd say that was justified.
Palestinian territory – encompassing the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem – has been occupied by Israel since 1967.
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 14, 2024 20:05:53 GMT
Israel are trying to get rid of Hamas so Gazans and Palestinian have no "military force" to oppose Israel when it tries to illegally seize the rest of Palestine.Netanyahu's Far Right coalition partners have been quite clear: Israel will claim all the land from the river to the sea, know less provocatively as Eretz Israel, its modern usage going back at least as far as Jabotinski. Likud's official policy is that from the river to the sea shall exclusively be a Jewish State. Funny how if non-Israelis use that term it is racist, but when Far Right Israelis use it, that's just fine. All The Best Considering Israel have legal claim over Palestinian land, I'd say that was justified.
Palestinian territory – encompassing the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem – has been occupied by Israel since 1967.
Which came after the mandate that divided the land. Everyone except Israel and the US agrees, they West Bank settlements ARE illegal under International Law. Collective Punishment - as meted out to the entirety of Gaza - IS illegal under International Law. Targeting Civilian Infrastructure IS illegal under International Law, unless it can be demonstrated that infrastructure has been seized by active combatants - something Israel claims every single time, but has not actually demonstrated even ONCE. All The Best |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 14, 2024 20:28:46 GMT
Considering Israel have legal claim over Palestinian land, I'd say that was justified.
Palestinian territory – encompassing the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem – has been occupied by Israel since 1967.
Which came after the mandate that divided the land. Everyone except Israel and the US agrees, they West Bank settlements ARE illegal under International Law. Collective Punishment - as meted out to the entirety of Gaza - IS illegal under International Law. Targeting Civilian Infrastructure IS illegal under International Law, unless it can be demonstrated that infrastructure has been seized by active combatants - something Israel claims every single time, but has not actually demonstrated even ONCE. All The Best Israel has history on its side ..
By more than 1,000 years, “Israel” predates “Palestine.” The land then became home primarily to an Arab population, again for more than a millennium. Both Jews and Arabs thus have a legitimate claim to the land. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has seen myriad wrongs and brutalities on both sides
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 14, 2024 21:39:28 GMT
So Israel are trying to make them free by getting rid of Hamas who are hiding amongst civilians and children in the hopes that when collateral damage occurs they will get their way for a ceasefire to start again in a few years or months Israel are trying to get rid of Hamas so Gazans and Palestinian have no "military force" to oppose Israel when it tries to illegally seize the rest of Palestine. This is bonkers - Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza and had absolutely no wish to go back in. Trying the land for peace route failed. |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 14, 2024 21:43:05 GMT
Considering Israel have legal claim over Palestinian land, I'd say that was justified.
Palestinian territory – encompassing the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including East Jerusalem – has been occupied by Israel since 1967.
Which came after the mandate that divided the land. Everyone except Israel and the US agrees, they West Bank settlements ARE illegal under International Law. Collective Punishment - as meted out to the entirety of Gaza - IS illegal under International Law. Targeting Civilian Infrastructure IS illegal under International Law, unless it can be demonstrated that infrastructure has been seized by active combatants - something Israel claims every single time, but has not actually demonstrated even ONCE. All The Best If the Palestinians had accepted the 2 state solution along the 1967 borders there would have been no more settlements and the Palestinians would have had their own state. You cannot blame one side for ignoring the 'borders' when the other side does not even recognise them. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 14, 2024 23:10:35 GMT
Which came after the mandate that divided the land. Everyone except Israel and the US agrees, they West Bank settlements ARE illegal under International Law. Collective Punishment - as meted out to the entirety of Gaza - IS illegal under International Law. Targeting Civilian Infrastructure IS illegal under International Law, unless it can be demonstrated that infrastructure has been seized by active combatants - something Israel claims every single time, but has not actually demonstrated even ONCE. All The Best Israel has history on its side ..
By more than 1,000 years, “Israel” predates “Palestine.” The land then became home primarily to an Arab population, again for more than a millennium. Both Jews and Arabs thus have a legitimate claim to the land. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has seen myriad wrongs and brutalities on both sides
Except. The Jews voluntarily went into Exile because Yahweh told them to. They were told not to return to the land of Israel until such times as certain signs were forthcoming. Those signs have not been forthcoming. So, Israel has SOME history on its side, there's some also history, and religious precedence that works against Israel's position. And yes, both side have some claim to the land, even though your previous post seemed to suggest otherwise, and both side have committed atrocities. Does the fact both sides have committed atrocities mean we should turn a blind eye to further atrocities? All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 14, 2024 23:18:38 GMT
Israel are trying to get rid of Hamas so Gazans and Palestinian have no "military force" to oppose Israel when it tries to illegally seize the rest of Palestine. This is bonkers - Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza and had absolutely no wish to go back in. Yes it does. It is one of the founding principles of Likud that Israel shall control all the land from the river to the sea. It is also a condition of the continued support of the Extreme Right to keep Netanyahu in power. That is why every time the Peace Talks look like bearing fruit Israel goes out if its way to take illegal actions to stir the hornets' nest. It is also why Israel has no real interest in ensuring the return of the remaining hostage - they need an ongoing casus beli. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 15, 2024 6:50:54 GMT
So why did the pull out of Gaza if they wanted to keep it - you are making no sense.
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Post by sheepy on Aug 15, 2024 6:56:32 GMT
So why did the pull out of Gaza if they wanted to keep it - you are making no sense. On the one hand to appease the yanks well with the other they created as many problems as possible. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 15, 2024 7:57:24 GMT
So why did the pull out of Gaza if they wanted to keep it - you are making no sense. Well, at least sheepy gets it. You mean why pull out after destroying infrastructure and leaving a political vacuum? Which withdrawal from Gaza di you mean; there's been more than one - which in itself shows Israel does not mean to remain outside of Gaza. You are still ignoring the central tenet of Likud's Founding Charter: that Israel will have total control of ALL the land from the river to the sea. I assume you are ignoring it because you can't deny it without demonstrating dishonesty, and you can't counter it because it is fact. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 15, 2024 8:13:50 GMT
So why did the pull out of Gaza if they wanted to keep it - you are making no sense. Well, at least sheepy gets it. You mean why pull out after destroying infrastructure and leaving a political vacuum? Which withdrawal from Gaza di you mean; there's been more than one - which in itself shows Israel does not mean to remain outside of Gaza. You are still ignoring the central tenet of Likud's Founding Charter: that Israel will have total control of ALL the land from the river to the sea. I assume you are ignoring it because you can't deny it without demonstrating dishonesty, and you can't counter it because it is fact. All The Best and you are ignoring the fact that Israel had total control of Gaza - yet left and handed over control to the Palestinians. No amount of obfuscation is going to alter that fact. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 15, 2024 8:16:26 GMT
Well, at least sheepy gets it. You mean why pull out after destroying infrastructure and leaving a political vacuum? Which withdrawal from Gaza di you mean; there's been more than one - which in itself shows Israel does not mean to remain outside of Gaza. You are still ignoring the central tenet of Likud's Founding Charter: that Israel will have total control of ALL the land from the river to the sea. I assume you are ignoring it because you can't deny it without demonstrating dishonesty, and you can't counter it because it is fact. All The Best and you are ignoring the fact that Israel had total control of Gaza - yet left and handed over control to the Palestinians. No amount of obfuscation is going to alter that fact. Do you understand the difference between Tactics and Strategy? If not, no point me continuing. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 15, 2024 8:19:07 GMT
and you are ignoring the fact that Israel had total control of Gaza - yet left and handed over control to the Palestinians. No amount of obfuscation is going to alter that fact. Do you understand the difference between Tactics and Strategy? If not, no point me continuing. All The Best Well i totally understand that if you have control and already occupy areas that leaving, allowing the enemy to build up their forces and then invading again (and thus taking a lot of casualties) to take control of the land that you already controlled is not a coherent strategy. Maybe to you it is but not to anyone who knows about these things. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 15, 2024 8:44:06 GMT
Do you understand the difference between Tactics and Strategy? If not, no point me continuing. All The Best Well i totally understand that if you have control and already occupy areas that leaving, allowing the enemy to build up their forces and then invading again (and thus taking a lot of casualties) to take control of the land that you already controlled is not a coherent strategy. It is if that Strategy is the long-term removal of Non-Jews as a socio-political entity from that land, and if the desired method for achieving that is a decades long war of attrition that is so horrific Non-Jews are too scared to return once the fighting has ended. Israel had control of, and gave up, just Gaza, it wants total control of all Palestine - a step back to set a trap, and then a push forward once the trap is sprung is both tactically and strategically reasonable. And Likud does not care about Israeli casualties - that is why it ignored numerous warning about a Hamas build-up prior to Oct 7th, including weeks and weeks of reports from its own Watchtower Units. Israel's strategy is also a hearts and minds strategy for the wider world; every time it commits atrocities it eventually pulls back, brokers a small peace, claims any criticism if Israeli war crimes is Anti-Semitic, and then next time it goes back in it does so with even more levels of atrocity. It is desensitising the wider world to its own War Crimes. All The Best |
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Post by witchfinder on Aug 15, 2024 9:08:39 GMT
I believe that the writting is on the wall for Israel and The West
The ascendancy of the worlds new superpower "China" will make a difference to world order, and with China now firmly allied to both Russia and Iran, I believe that change is coming.
But even more to the point is China's growing influence in the third world, particularly in Africa, combined with waning influence by the West. The amount of investment in Africa by China is staggering, and China is building military bases and buying influence.
We have allready seen the bitter and very acrimonius charges aimed at Israel by African nations such as South Africa, not long ago thought to be a pro-Western nation.
The West would do well if it GOT SERIOUS about its supposed policy of the "Two State Solution" and stopped pussy-footing around with Israel.
The United States and its closest allies are at loggerheads with most of the developing world on this key foreign policy issue. It does not bode well for the West at all, and if we are to stand a chance of keeping the developing world on side, we should look at forcing a two state solution.
The West, may one day in the future be "The Old Order" that no one takes any notice of any more, and has greatly diminished influence.
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