|
|
Post by witchfinder on Jul 7, 2024 10:54:38 GMT
I'm not sure there is any evidence to support the idea that locking more people up leads to less crime - perhaps rehabilitation rather than incarceration could work better. I doubt it would be any cheaper though. Amazing ... just for once I agree with Pacifico It doesnt always work, but give a person a chance, and quite often they turn away from crime At one time attitudes were very different in this country, a person came out of prison, could not get a job, no landlord would rent them a room, and all too often the only option seemed Crime, a vicious circle. The Timpson family know that the vicious circle can be broken |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jul 7, 2024 11:25:06 GMT
Soft on crime, soft on criminals. Bit of a surprise. I would thought Sir Stodge would have waited a bit before revealing his true feelings
It was always going to happen. Labour will solve the prison overcrowding problem by letting prisoners go free, and jailing fewar. Knife carrying gang members must be laughing their heads off. Labour will also stop illegals crossing the channel in dinghies by sending ferries for them. You think I'm joking? lol wait and see. |
|
|
|
Post by Dogburger on Jul 7, 2024 11:40:24 GMT
Soft on crime, soft on criminals. Bit of a surprise. I would thought Sir Stodge would have waited a bit before revealing his true feelings
I think we know what his true feelings are , less convictions means less criminals ,legalisation means less illegality and submission means less conflict . He is everything and stands for everything I fight against |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 7, 2024 11:42:20 GMT
Soft on crime, soft on criminals. Bit of a surprise. I would thought Sir Stodge would have waited a bit before revealing his true feelings
I think we know what his true feelings are , less convictions means less criminals ,legalisation means less illegality and submission means less conflict . He is everything and stands for everything I fight against Yes. They are the enemy. |
|
|
|
Post by bancroft on Jul 7, 2024 11:45:01 GMT
Funny isn't it Blair's wife had a habit of locking up poll-tax protesters remember that?
|
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Jul 7, 2024 11:49:41 GMT
Soft on crime, soft on criminals. Bit of a surprise. I would thought Sir Stodge would have waited a bit before revealing his true feelings
It was always going to happen. Labour will solve the prison overcrowding problem by letting prisoners go free, and jailing fewar. Knife carrying gang members must be laughing their heads off. Labour will also stop illegals crossing the channel in dinghies by sending ferries for them. You think I'm joking? lol wait and see. NO ONE has suggested or proposed that people serving sentences for knife crime should either be let free or not serve custodial sentences. What is been talked about is those who have committed petty crimes, such as shoplifting or petty theft, and discussion is also around those that should not even be in prison ... people who need psychiatric helo NOT prison. |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 7, 2024 11:51:52 GMT
It doesnt always work, but give a person a chance, and quite often they turn away from crime... We give criminals more than a chance. No one goes to prison for a first offence, much short of murder, or even in many cases a 51st offence. The vast majority of prisoners are recidivists who have exhausted every other avenue already. It's a complex picture, and that's one place where we go wrong: We allow offending behaviour to become entrenched. I remember speaking to a prison governor years ago. He said that if convicts were sent to prison for their first offence most would be too scared to ever commit another. He said: "Send them to me first, if you really want to sort it out." |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 7, 2024 11:56:22 GMT
It was always going to happen. Labour will solve the prison overcrowding problem by letting prisoners go free, and jailing fewar. Knife carrying gang members must be laughing their heads off. Labour will also stop illegals crossing the channel in dinghies by sending ferries for them. You think I'm joking? lol wait and see. NO ONE has suggested or proposed that people serving sentences for knife crime should either be let free or not serve custodial sentences. What is been talked about is those who have committed petty crimes, such as shoplifting or petty theft, and discussion is also around those that should not even be in prison ... people who need psychiatric helo NOT prison. Ah yes, mental health.
Well, let's see: Years ago the Tories decided to shut all the mentally challenged lovely persons institutions and kick all the mentally challenged lovely people out onto the street. They called this “Care in the Community” except that there wasn't actually much care going on. And successive Labour Governments, having roundly condemned this policy while in opposition, also proceeded to continue with it once in power.
And so many mentally challenged lovely people, most of whom had been quite happy in their mentally challenged lovely persons institutions, ended up getting arrested since their aberrant behaviour was considered unacceptable out in the real world.
And now certain quarters bemoan that our prisons are full of mentally challenged lovely people. Well of course they are: Mentally challenged lovely people gotta be somewhere and having removed all of the mentally challenged lovely persons institutions society has nowhere else to place them.
So all that we've actually achieved in the last few decades is to swap one institution for another. But does it really matter? Probably not: Whether someone is a dangerous criminal or a dangerous mentally challenged lovely person they should still be locked up. And at least with the custodial option the public are protected while the said dangerous mentally challenged lovely person is locked up.
Not a difficult point to grasp unless one is a woke liberal or a disingenuous lefty lawyer paid to pretend otherwise.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jul 7, 2024 11:58:09 GMT
I'm not sure there is any evidence to support the idea that locking more people up leads to less crime - perhaps rehabilitation rather than incarceration could work better. I doubt it would be any cheaper though. Amazing ... just for once I agree with Pacifico It doesnt always work, but give a person a chance, and quite often they turn away from crime At one time attitudes were very different in this country, a person came out of prison, could not get a job, no landlord would rent them a room, and all too often the only option seemed Crime, a vicious circle. The Timpson family know that the vicious circle can be broken If only that were true www.gov.uk/government/statistics/proven-reoffending-statistics-april-to-june-2022/proven-reoffending-statistics-april-to-june-2022The reality is that the latest searchable government statistics on Proven Reoffending shows that over a quarter of those banged up go straight back to offending the moment they are released, and the trend is upwards. And the stupidity of allowing criminals to learn how to make keys for locks beggars belief |
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Jul 7, 2024 12:05:00 GMT
Let us not forget that the prison space problem is a Tory problem, and we are now here debating how to solve this Tory created problem.
The prison estate is crumbling, and not enough capacity has been built
People with mental health problems DO NOT belong in prisons, they belong in psychiatric hospitals and / or secure hospitals, but of course there's the other Tory created problem ... not enough capacity, not enough psychiatrists, not enough mental health nurses.
Until recently children with mental health issues were been dumped in prisons by the police because there was nowhere else to put them, children are now, today, waiting many months for URGENT childrens mental health appointments.
As Starmer and others have repeatedly said, everything is broken, the Tories have fucked everything up, and its going to take some time to begin to repair all the damage.
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jul 7, 2024 12:07:30 GMT
It was always going to happen. Labour will solve the prison overcrowding problem by letting prisoners go free, and jailing fewar. Knife carrying gang members must be laughing their heads off. Labour will also stop illegals crossing the channel in dinghies by sending ferries for them. You think I'm joking? lol wait and see. NO ONE has suggested or proposed that people serving sentences for knife crime should either be let free or not serve custodial sentences. What is been talked about is those who have committed petty crimes, such as shoplifting or petty theft, and discussion is also around those that should not even be in prison ... people who need psychiatric helo NOT prison. How typical, you lefties are bloody dangerous. Shop theft is not petty, it cost retailers £1.8 billion last year. It's a gateway crime that often leads to more serious crime. Christ almighty, in order to empty prisons and get crime figs down I can see you lot decriminalising 'petty' crime which would ensure wonderfully multicultural Labour voting ghettoes become even more dangerous. |
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Jul 7, 2024 12:14:00 GMT
Amazing ... just for once I agree with Pacifico It doesnt always work, but give a person a chance, and quite often they turn away from crime At one time attitudes were very different in this country, a person came out of prison, could not get a job, no landlord would rent them a room, and all too often the only option seemed Crime, a vicious circle. The Timpson family know that the vicious circle can be broken If only that were true www.gov.uk/government/statistics/proven-reoffending-statistics-april-to-june-2022/proven-reoffending-statistics-april-to-june-2022The reality is that the latest searchable government statistics on Proven Reoffending shows that over a quarter of those banged up go straight back to offending the moment they are released, and the trend is upwards. And the stupidity of allowing criminals to learn how to make keys for locks beggars belief So, if about one quarter of prisoners reoffend, I take it that approximately 75% do not reoffend ? I know for certain in my mind that James Timpson, former chairman of the Employers Forum for Reducing Re-offending (EFFRR), and also chairman of the Prison Reform Trust, knows a lot more about the subject than you or I know. |
|
|
|
Post by ratcliff on Jul 7, 2024 12:15:23 GMT
NO ONE has suggested or proposed that people serving sentences for knife crime should either be let free or not serve custodial sentences. What is been talked about is those who have committed petty crimes, such as shoplifting or petty theft, and discussion is also around those that should not even be in prison ... people who need psychiatric helo NOT prison. How typical, you lefties are bloody dangerous. Shop theft is not petty, it cost retailers £1.8 billion last year. It's a gateway crime that often leads to more serious crime. Christ almighty, in order to empty prisons and get crime figs down I can see you lot decriminalising 'petty' crime which would ensure wonderfully multicultural Labour voting ghettoes become even more dangerous. A few years ago I accompanied a college party to the local magistrates court to watch proceedings. One that stuck out was a chap (early 20s) who was jailed for 2 months for driving while disqualified and no tax or insurance It was his first prison sentence , but his 17th conviction for the same offence where he'd previously had fines/community punishments/interventions and the like |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jul 7, 2024 12:18:38 GMT
How typical, you lefties are bloody dangerous. Shop theft is not petty, it cost retailers £1.8 billion last year. It's a gateway crime that often leads to more serious crime. Christ almighty, in order to empty prisons and get crime figs down I can see you lot decriminalising 'petty' crime which would ensure wonderfully multicultural Labour voting ghettoes become even more dangerous. A few years ago I accompanied a college party to the local magistrates court to watch proceedings. One that stuck out was a chap (early 20s) who was jailed for 2 months for driving while disqualified and no tax or insurance It was his first prison sentence , but his 17th conviction for the same offence where he'd previously had fines/community punishments/interventions and the like Sounds about right. Maybe if he had received a brief custodial sentence first, he wouldn't have had 16 subsequent convictions. Classic case of spare the rod and spoil the child. |
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Jul 7, 2024 12:22:37 GMT
Let us not forget that the prison space problem is a Tory problem, and we are now here debating how to solve this Tory created problem. The prison estate is crumbling, and not enough capacity has been built People with mental health problems DO NOT belong in prisons, they belong in psychiatric hospitals and / or secure hospitals, but of course there's the other Tory created problem ... not enough capacity, not enough psychiatrists, not enough mental health nurses. Until recently children with mental health issues were been dumped in prisons by the police because there was nowhere else to put them, children are now, today, waiting many months for URGENT childrens mental health appointments. As Starmer and others have repeatedly said, everything is broken, the Tories have fucked everything up, and its going to take some time to begin to repair all the damage. Well call me stupid Einstein but with a mental health crisis above all else, which even affects the prison service, and the population at large isn't that where you start dealing with that and creating a better health for those who are obviously in dire need. Because obviously keeping them spaced out on medication hasn't worked. |
|
