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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 22, 2024 6:51:57 GMT
The opposition parties are up in arms about Farage saying that the EU and NATO basically provoked Russia into invading Ukraine. This is just a statement of the bleeding obvious. It's been obvious for years that the EU's empire building was pissing off Putin and needed some diplomatic handling from the likes of Ursula van der Leyen - of which there was none. Coupled with the EU's aspirations to have an army this was a severe provocation on Russia's border.
The opposition are trying to twist what Farage said as justifying Putin's invasion - but he has said specifically that nothing justifies the invasion of Ukraine. But it was foolish of the EU to risk provoking a despot like Putin.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 22, 2024 8:36:24 GMT
van der Leyen is a US puppet, so its another reason why we are better off out. I respect Farage for saying something that is true about Ukraine. President Putin's reason for doing it was the unacceptability in having US missiles along the Russian border. If the US wants to do that, I feel there will be Russian nuclear subs stationed over in Cuba directly threatening the bastards so they know how it feels. Anyone with any sense would want to avoid this scenario. There will become a time when they won't be welcome any longer in the South China Sea as well.
The world is changing. Farage and Galloway are the only ones in Britain who have said anything to this effect. Basically if we Brits want a future we will have to work with BRICs. It will need a leader who defies the US. Starmer is someone who I don't think has the balls. The big test for Starmer is if he follows the EU on tariffs. I want to see Blighty as a low tariff/free trade zone. To recover our economy we want minimum restrictions in trade between us and the rest of the world, and I think if anyone sets conditions on who else we are allowed to trade with such that we can trade with them, then we will have to tell them to bugger off.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 22, 2024 9:19:05 GMT
The opposition parties are up in arms about Farage saying that the EU and NATO basically provoked Russia into invading Ukraine. This is just a statement of the bleeding obvious. It's been obvious for years that the EU's empire building was pissing off Putin and needed some diplomatic handling from the likes of Ursula van der Leyen - of which there was none. Coupled with the EU's aspirations to have an army this was a severe provocation on Russia's border. The opposition are trying to twist what Farage said as justifying Putin's invasion - but he has said specifically that nothing justifies the invasion of Ukraine. But it was foolish of the EU to risk provoking a despot like Putin. Truth or not, Farage was a fool to say this two weeks before a general election. He is of course trying to play it down now, but it was pretty obvious his opponents were going to grab it with both hands. His opponents will likely bash him with this for years to come. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 9:31:16 GMT
The opposition parties are up in arms about Farage saying that the EU and NATO basically provoked Russia into invading Ukraine. This is just a statement of the bleeding obvious. It's been obvious for years that the EU's empire building was pissing off Putin and needed some diplomatic handling from the likes of Ursula van der Leyen - of which there was none. Coupled with the EU's aspirations to have an army this was a severe provocation on Russia's border. The opposition are trying to twist what Farage said as justifying Putin's invasion - but he has said specifically that nothing justifies the invasion of Ukraine. But it was foolish of the EU to risk provoking a despot like Putin. In 2013/14 parliament suggested the exact same thing. There would be no war over there today if it wasn't for the EU's interference in Ukrainian politics. They had many years to try and correct the problem, but they just let it spill over into full-blown war whilst expecting the rest of the world to clean up. Farage is 100% correct, and nothing he said justified Putin. Farage simply spoke the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 9:34:40 GMT
The opposition parties are up in arms about Farage saying that the EU and NATO basically provoked Russia into invading Ukraine. This is just a statement of the bleeding obvious. It's been obvious for years that the EU's empire building was pissing off Putin and needed some diplomatic handling from the likes of Ursula van der Leyen - of which there was none. Coupled with the EU's aspirations to have an army this was a severe provocation on Russia's border. The opposition are trying to twist what Farage said as justifying Putin's invasion - but he has said specifically that nothing justifies the invasion of Ukraine. But it was foolish of the EU to risk provoking a despot like Putin. Truth or not, Farage was a fool to say this two weeks before a general election. He is of course trying to play it down now, but it was pretty obvious his opponents were going to grab it with both hands. His opponents will likely bash him with this for years to come. This is the problem, Red. The estabilshment and its media lie to the people, and anyone who challenges them end up being attacked in a smear campaign. It's totally disgusting and no different to how any other totalitarian regime operates. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 22, 2024 9:42:28 GMT
Truth or not, Farage was a fool to say this two weeks before a general election. He is of course trying to play it down now, but it was pretty obvious his opponents were going to grab it with both hands. His opponents will likely bash him with this for years to come. This is the problem, Red. The estabilshment and its media lie to the people, and anyone who challenges them end up being attacked in a smear campaign. It's totally disgusting and no different to how any other totalitarian regime operates. I agree, which is why Farage should have seen this shitstorm comming. He can get away with saying most thing most of the time, but not something as contentious as this two weeks before a general election. All he's done is hand his opponents a stick to beat him with. |
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Post by piglet on Jun 22, 2024 10:13:25 GMT
All countries have the right to choose, if they want the EU then let them have it, To court them is not wrong. To say no to the Ukraine, Azerbaizan or anyonee is WRONG, its doing Russias job for it.
WHO WOULD CHOOSE RUSSIA?
Farage has made a very serious mistake, in the midst of eelections for BRITAIN, he brings world politics into it, tactically i thought he was flawless. WOT an idiot.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 10:24:31 GMT
This is the problem, Red. The estabilshment and its media lie to the people, and anyone who challenges them end up being attacked in a smear campaign. It's totally disgusting and no different to how any other totalitarian regime operates. I agree, which is why Farage should have seen this shitstorm comming. He can get away with saying most thing most of the time, but not something as contentious as this two weeks before a general election. All he's done is hand his opponents a stick to beat him with. He spoke the truth, Red. The only issue I see is that this should have come out earlier, which may have helped in negotiations. The idea is to stop the war, not to let it develop into a WW3 level of violence. To do that we have to be honest. |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 22, 2024 10:58:50 GMT
Putin saw it as provocation, doesn't excuse what he's done, but he was saying as long ago as 2008 he'd attack Ukraine if NATO tried to get them to join, and the EU's DCFTA included common security and defence policy statements which he saw as provocations.
Saying that he'd already attacked Ukraine in 2004 by trying to assassinate Yushchenko.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 22, 2024 11:19:14 GMT
This is the problem, Red. The estabilshment and its media lie to the people, and anyone who challenges them end up being attacked in a smear campaign. It's totally disgusting and no different to how any other totalitarian regime operates. I agree, which is why Farage should have seen this shitstorm comming. He can get away with saying most thing most of the time, but not something as contentious as this two weeks before a general election. All he's done is hand his opponents a stick to beat him with. I'm really surprised at this from you RR. You surely understand by now that Farage just says what he thinks - and he's usually right. He challenged immigration when it was unacceptable to do so - and he was attacked for doing this. But the majority of the UK (and the EU) now realise that immigration is too high. Farage has now challenged the "group think" that the Russia/Ukraine war is a "black and white" issue - where Russia is black and Ukraine is white. It's more complex than that but almost all our politicians unite to attack anyone who points this out. And you seem to be saying that Farage shouldn't be doing this for fear of losing votes. FFS Farage is where he is now because isn't afraid of telling the truth. Or do you want ALL our politicians to lie for fear of being cancelled or a left wing pile-on. He couldn't give a shit.. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 22, 2024 12:12:27 GMT
Truth or not, Farage was a fool to say this two weeks before a general election. He is of course trying to play it down now, but it was pretty obvious his opponents were going to grab it with both hands. His opponents will likely bash him with this for years to come. This is the problem, Red. The estabilshment and its media lie to the people, and anyone who challenges them end up being attacked in a smear campaign. It's totally disgusting and no different to how any other totalitarian regime operates. Farage needs to stick to his guns. There's enough proof for him to totally annihilate the bullshitter attackers. He's not a lightweight when it comes to being attacked. Anyway, I'm glad he brought it up as it will help air the issue. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 22, 2024 12:25:56 GMT
This is the problem, Red. The estabilshment and its media lie to the people, and anyone who challenges them end up being attacked in a smear campaign. It's totally disgusting and no different to how any other totalitarian regime operates. I agree, which is why Farage should have seen this shitstorm comming. He can get away with saying most thing most of the time, but not something as contentious as this two weeks before a general election. All he's done is hand his opponents a stick to beat him with. I don't think so. Let them do it and expose the BS. The thing is Ukraine is likely to turn into the next Iraq as far as public opinion is concerned. To begin with all the proles were geed up for war, but little by little the lies fell apart. Give it 5 years and Farage will say, yes but I was the first to say that when everyone else was attacking me. A bit like it was re the EU. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 22, 2024 12:35:12 GMT
I agree, which is why Farage should have seen this shitstorm comming. He can get away with saying most thing most of the time, but not something as contentious as this two weeks before a general election. All he's done is hand his opponents a stick to beat him with. I'm really surprised at this from you RR. You surely understand by now that Farage just says what he thinks - and he's usually right. He challenged immigration when it was unacceptable to do so - and he was attacked for doing this. But the majority of the UK (and the EU) now realise that immigration is too high. Farage has now challenged the "group think" that the Russia/Ukraine war is a "black and white" issue - where Russia is black and Ukraine is white. It's more complex than that but almost all our politicians unite to attack anyone who points this out. And you seem to be saying that Farage shouldn't be doing this for fear of losing votes. FFS Farage is where he is now because isn't afraid of telling the truth. Or do you want ALL our politicians to lie for fear of being cancelled or a left wing pile-on. He couldn't give a shit.. I understand Farage does have some Russian connections. Russians are cool with Farage and agree with him about the EU. One day the UK might need a guy like this to broker peace between the UK and Russia, because we are not going back in that EU and Starmer knows it. Being out of the EU will force us one way or another to tone down the crap and talk constructively between all nations of the world so we maximise trade. We would all like to trade and become better off, including our potential trading partners. The UK has got to get into global trade and start leading in matters. There is the BRI. We should integrate with that to make trade cheaper and faster. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 22, 2024 13:01:07 GMT
This is the problem, Red. The estabilshment and its media lie to the people, and anyone who challenges them end up being attacked in a smear campaign. It's totally disgusting and no different to how any other totalitarian regime operates. I agree, which is why Farage should have seen this shitstorm comming. He can get away with saying most thing most of the time, but not something as contentious as this two weeks before a general election. All he's done is hand his opponents a stick to beat him with. I agree Red he has stepped into a minefield whith that statement. He is right of course but the usuals will have a field day and prolong their usual smear compaign for years to come.. |
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Post by patman post on Jun 22, 2024 13:27:01 GMT
Why would what Farage says carry any more weight than the accusing the NHS of attracting cyber attacks on its facilities by having blood banks and treating victims of Kremlin poisonings?
Seems to me, sovereign nations should be free to sever connections with past masters and also choose who they'd like to partner with in defence and/or trade as the economic and political environments change — eg, after Russia's Ukraine aggression, Finland and Sweden have chosen to join Nato, does that give Putin the OK to attack those neighbours too...?
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