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Post by steppenwolf on Jun 27, 2024 7:02:36 GMT
Why cant eastern europe join nato, the EU or anybody? Who cares what the Russians want. If being under Russian influence is great, why doesnt eastern europe vote for Russia, not want to leave it? Its because they want 5g, colour tvs, well stocked supermarkets, etc. As a sovereign country Ukraine are entitled to join the EU and NATO (if accepted by either institution). But if you remember, the original idea of the EU (actually the Common Market as it then was) was to try to solve the problems that Europe seemed to have with regular wars between the countries. The idea was that creating a trading area would stop wars. And it worked. The trouble is that the politicians can never resist an opportunity to turn everything into a political project. So the Common Market has morphed into the EU which is a European superstate that's swallowing up most of Europe and the EU Commission is exerting political control over many of these countries - one of them being Ukraine. And Russia is (justifiably IMO) worried about this. The EU KNOWS that Russia is VERY sensitive about the eastward expansion of their influence, so it should have handled this problem with careful diplomacy - but they made no attempt to maintain diplomatic relations with Russia. The problem now is that the EU have provoked a war (or - if you prefer) have given Russia an excuse for war. It doesn't matter which. There's a war which could have been avoided. Ukraine can never win this war - even with all the military hardware that we, the USA and the EU give them. They will run out of manpower to use that hardware - all their men of fighting age will be either dead or gone to live in Poland. So we either have to start a new world war or negotiate for peace with Russia. So Farage is dead right. There need to be negotiations now. And the EU needs to rein in its imperial ambitions. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 27, 2024 8:20:04 GMT
The agreement was bilateral. Russia never lined its border with missiles either. Ukraine on the other hand had the US planning to do just that. The Chinese know what the cunts are like as they have the US missiles in their country agaisnt their will. The thing was our country was taking US orders all the way through it. All the lines are written for our traitor politicians and journalists. This should be obvious to anyone who has studied their bullshit. What is not so well known though is the US telling Britain before WW2 that if Britain were to declare war, the US would back them up. There was this understanding before, not when we were told they decided. It is quite likely the US actually told us to declare war as well, although this is unclear. It was much like it is now where certain agents of the US were pushing it on their behalf in the press and government. The details I would imagine are still classified today. We were very poorly informed back then and control of the media was easy. The creation of the EU was part of the new world order post WW2 where the US would control the entire world. It managed to order most countries around and assassinated the leaders of the ones it could not. Nice friends eh?
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jun 27, 2024 8:48:59 GMT
The truth of the matter is a NATO/EU Army presence in Ukraine would only have been acceptable to Russia …. if Russia had been accepted for NATO membership.
Putin found an opportunity to put out feelers to joining NATO back when Trump was President … but it failed because Trump was struggling with Biden/Soros-funded anarchists … and struggling to control the madcap over-spending anti-Commies in the Pentagon itching to destroy Russia and China.
… puppet Biden was well under Zionist control … they easily broke the American economic model in two short years… going all out to try and complete Project World Domination … using SS tactics and Azov terrorism … their masks collectively slipped in Gaza … and now this is the turning point to their destruction … as ‘major players’ on the World Stage ….
…. now electorates everywhere want them GONE and JAILED for crimes against Humanity.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 27, 2024 8:55:05 GMT
Russia never had a hope in hell to join NATO .
Russia would have ham strung NATO and undermined the countries in it.
It would be like getting the Mafia to join the FBI
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 27, 2024 15:33:20 GMT
Russia never had a hope in hell to join NATO . Russia would have ham strung NATO and undermined the countries in it. It would be like getting the Mafia to join the FBI Except the Mafia did join the FBI, and it was in WW2. The Mafia controlled some harbour and the US did a deal with them to look out for Nazis invading. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 27, 2024 16:52:22 GMT
Russia never had a hope in hell to join NATO . Russia would have ham strung NATO and undermined the countries in it. It would be like getting the Mafia to join the FBI Except the Mafia did join the FBI, and it was in WW2. The Mafia controlled some harbour and the US did a deal with them to look out for Nazis invading. They didn’t become part of the FBI . ”Italian Americans were very helpful in the planning and execution of the invasion of Sicily. The Mafia was involved in assisting the U.S. war efforts.[13] Luciano's associates found numerous Sicilians to help the Naval Intelligence draw maps of the harbors of Sicily and dig up old snapshots of the coastline.[14][15] Vito Genovese, another Mafia boss, offered his services to the U.S. Army and became an interpreter and advisor to the U.S. Army military government in Naples. He quickly became one of AMGOT’s most trusted employees.[16] Through the Navy Intelligence’s Mafia contacts from Operation Underworld, the names of Sicilian underworld personalities and friendly Sicilian natives who could be trusted were obtained and actually used in the Sicilian campaign.[17] en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborations_between_the_United_States_government_and_Italian_Mafia#:~:text=Italian%20Americans%20were%20very%20helpful,old%20snapshots%20of%20the%20coastline. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 27, 2024 17:30:15 GMT
Except the Mafia did join the FBI, and it was in WW2. The Mafia controlled some harbour and the US did a deal with them to look out for Nazis invading. They didn’t become part of the FBI . ”Italian Americans were very helpful in the planning and execution of the invasion of Sicily. The Mafia was involved in assisting the U.S. war efforts.[13] Luciano's associates found numerous Sicilians to help the Naval Intelligence draw maps of the harbors of Sicily and dig up old snapshots of the coastline.[14][15] Vito Genovese, another Mafia boss, offered his services to the U.S. Army and became an interpreter and advisor to the U.S. Army military government in Naples. He quickly became one of AMGOT’s most trusted employees.[16] Through the Navy Intelligence’s Mafia contacts from Operation Underworld, the names of Sicilian underworld personalities and friendly Sicilian natives who could be trusted were obtained and actually used in the Sicilian campaign.[17] en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborations_between_the_United_States_government_and_Italian_Mafia#:~:text=Italian%20Americans%20were%20very%20helpful,old%20snapshots%20of%20the%20coastline. I thought the one I recall was American Mafia. I can't quite recall the details though. I don't think I got it from Wikipedia.
By the way, did you know the Mafia built Las Vegas? In the early 20c the Mafia was all over the American establishment, corrupting the courts and all sorts.
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Post by Bentley on Jun 27, 2024 17:35:43 GMT
They didn’t become part of the FBI . ”Italian Americans were very helpful in the planning and execution of the invasion of Sicily. The Mafia was involved in assisting the U.S. war efforts.[13] Luciano's associates found numerous Sicilians to help the Naval Intelligence draw maps of the harbors of Sicily and dig up old snapshots of the coastline.[14][15] Vito Genovese, another Mafia boss, offered his services to the U.S. Army and became an interpreter and advisor to the U.S. Army military government in Naples. He quickly became one of AMGOT’s most trusted employees.[16] Through the Navy Intelligence’s Mafia contacts from Operation Underworld, the names of Sicilian underworld personalities and friendly Sicilian natives who could be trusted were obtained and actually used in the Sicilian campaign.[17] en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborations_between_the_United_States_government_and_Italian_Mafia#:~:text=Italian%20Americans%20were%20very%20helpful,old%20snapshots%20of%20the%20coastline. I thought the one I recall was American Mafia. I can't quite recall the details though. I don't think I got it from Wikipedia.
By the way, did you know the Mafia built Las Vegas? In the early 20c the Mafia was all over the American establishment, corrupting the courts and all sorts.
As I said the Mafia ( American or otherwise )never became part of the FBI . Ive been to Las Vegas twice so yes I do know about it’s Mafia links . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 27, 2024 17:40:14 GMT
I thought the one I recall was American Mafia. I can't quite recall the details though. I don't think I got it from Wikipedia.
By the way, did you know the Mafia built Las Vegas? In the early 20c the Mafia was all over the American establishment, corrupting the courts and all sorts.
As I said the Mafia ( American or otherwise )never became part of the FBI . Ive been to Las Vegas twice so yes I do know about it’s Mafia links . No it did not become part of the FBI, but just collaborated because the Mafia controlled the port for their own protection racket activities, hence they had it secured. The FBI (I think) asked them to protect agaisnt Nazis sneaking into the US. I would guess they handed them some cash for the services as well, although it did not say. |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 27, 2024 17:57:58 GMT
As I said the Mafia ( American or otherwise )never became part of the FBI . Ive been to Las Vegas twice so yes I do know about it’s Mafia links . No it did not become part of the FBI, but just collaborated because the Mafia controlled the port for their own protection racket activities, hence they had it secured. The FBI (I think) asked them to protect agaisnt Nazis sneaking into the US. I would guess they handed them some cash for the services as well, although it did not say. Indeed . The Mafia never joined the FBI. |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 28, 2024 0:22:57 GMT
Putin once tried to join NATO, if he hadn't been such a scumbag, Russia would now be a part of NATO.
Russia needs democracy.
Democracies do not bomb democracies.
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Post by Orac on Jun 28, 2024 9:34:13 GMT
Putin is sensitive about any country (or superstate) being in a position to place weapons on its border. The EU has been "cosying" up to Ukraine for years. It's also been talking about an EU army. Putin also believes that the West has broken promises not to expand NATO to the east. The EU's involvement with Ukraine has been a very sensitive issue for Russia for years and the EU should have trodden very carefully - but it didn't. This war could have been avoided if the EU had maintained better diplomatic relations with Russia. The EU doesn't have an army and even if it did it would not pose a threat to Russia since there is no and never has been any threat to Russia's sovereign territory on the contrary the EU has/had a very open trade policy with Russia which is the basis of the EU's diplomatic reach. This "I know i'm no threat therefore may adversary should agree" position is very odd. I'd almost count it as brain damage -or perhaps just very limited understanding of 'game'. Your adversary is not restricted to your interpretation of your actions - he could well have a different opinion. It is best to take this notion into account when deciding what to do. |
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Post by thescotsman on Jun 28, 2024 11:50:53 GMT
The EU doesn't have an army and even if it did it would not pose a threat to Russia since there is no and never has been any threat to Russia's sovereign territory on the contrary the EU has/had a very open trade policy with Russia which is the basis of the EU's diplomatic reach. This "I know i'm no threat therefore may adversary should agree" position is very odd. I'd almost count it as brain damage -or perhaps just very limited understanding of 'game'. Your adversary is not restricted to your interpretation of your actions - he could well have a different opinion. It is best to take this notion into account when deciding what to do. Of course but that's not the point. The point is that if Russia has a beef with the EU then it discusses such with the EU and not invade Ukraine. Again Russia does not and never has seen the EU as a threat. Read Putin's comments read his essay and listen to his interviews. Putin and Malofeev and Dugin et al crafted a narrative which determined that Ukraine doesn't exist as a sovereign entity and that the land occupied by Ukraine is part of a greater Russian Empire and thus Russia has a right to do with it as it pleases. The narratives created by Russian shills; these delectable, easy to swallow thoughtless little soundbites about EU or NATO or the US expansion or a couple of geriatric turbot threatening poor little Russia are all just bollocks. |
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Post by Orac on Jun 28, 2024 12:32:03 GMT
This "I know i'm no threat therefore may adversary should agree" position is very odd. I'd almost count it as brain damage -or perhaps just very limited understanding of 'game'. Your adversary is not restricted to your interpretation of your actions - he could well have a different opinion. It is best to take this notion into account when deciding what to do. Of course but that's not the point. The point is that if Russia has a beef with the EU then it discusses such with the EU and not invade Ukraine. I think we have a case of the same thing again. The above is your point. I have a different point to make. Using retarded assumptions about the world hardly ever pays dividends |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 28, 2024 12:44:35 GMT
No it did not become part of the FBI, but just collaborated because the Mafia controlled the port for their own protection racket activities, hence they had it secured. The FBI (I think) asked them to protect agaisnt Nazis sneaking into the US. I would guess they handed them some cash for the services as well, although it did not say. Indeed . The Mafia never joined the FBI. They did and they didn't.
Join: c. 1300, "to unite (things) into a whole, combine, put or bring together; juxtapose,"
It can also mean sign up for a job and be on their regular payroll. They did not join in this narrow sense, but there was certainly a time where they united/combined. That was my original point. I think we have had this kind of confusion in arguments before over a word which has multiple meanings in different contexts. It's just one of those historical quirky things that you may not have come across in broadly believing the Mafia and the FBI would never see eye to eye.
By the way, I have one of those models of an American gangster car on my mantelpiece. My family had a cleaner who bought it as a present when i was a child and love it to bits. They had some cool cars back then. They had a ledge along the side where you could stand with a machine gun.
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