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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 9, 2024 12:53:39 GMT
I imagine by Christmas when people cant afford to heat their homes, Labour voters who voted for more immigration and draconian net zero policies will be very pleased with progress. However the vast majority of Labour voters will in all likelihood feel conned and disillusioned. We'll see.  |
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Post by Vinny on Jul 9, 2024 13:19:40 GMT
The more I think about it, Robert Jenrick would not be a bad call.
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 13:38:48 GMT
All the Tories have to do is quietly regroup and watch this government become more and more unpopular. And what if they don't? Didn't you once say Starmer's Labour were unelectable? I think you're still in the denial stage of grief. if you have a disgraceful election system that rewards unelectability with seats , that doesn't mean a particular party has popular support. I think you are in denial about the disaster of uk democracy. !4 years in the wilderness against arguably the worst prime minister leading the worst Conservative Party in whats supposed to be a two horse race and the best labour can do is 33.7 % of the turnout? If that's denial of "electability" then the bar is extremely low. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 9, 2024 14:07:35 GMT
And what if they don't? Didn't you once say Starmer's Labour were unelectable? I think you're still in the denial stage of grief. if you have a disgraceful election system that rewards unelectability with seats , that doesn't mean a particular party has popular support. I think you are in denial about the disaster of uk democracy. !4 years in the wilderness against arguably the worst prime minister leading the worst Conservative Party in whats supposed to be a two horse race and the best labour can do is 33.7 % of the turnout? If that's denial of "electability" then the bar is extremely low. "!4 years in the wilderness against arguably the worst prime minister leading the worst Conservative Party in whats supposed to be a two horse race and the best labour can do is 33.7 % of the turnout?" Which was still enough to utterly trounce the Tories, what does that tell you about the Tories popularity? I'm not in denial about the flaws in our electoral system, I've commented on them myself before. But this is the battleground the Tories will have to fight the next election on, complaining about it now inevitably raises the question of why they didn't they do anything about it when they were in power? |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 14:14:03 GMT
if you have a disgraceful election system that rewards unelectability with seats , that doesn't mean a particular party has popular support. I think you are in denial about the disaster of uk democracy. !4 years in the wilderness against arguably the worst prime minister leading the worst Conservative Party in whats supposed to be a two horse race and the best labour can do is 33.7 % of the turnout? If that's denial of "electability" then the bar is extremely low. "!4 years in the wilderness against arguably the worst prime minister leading the worst Conservative Party in whats supposed to be a two horse race and the best labour can do is 33.7 % of the turnout?" Which was still enough to utterly trounce the Tories, what does that tell you about the Tories popularity? I'm not in denial about the flaws in our electoral system, I've commented on them myself before. But this is the battleground the Tories will have to fight the next election on, complaining about it now inevitably raises the question of why they didn't they do anything about it when they were in power? I didnt vote for the tories , and almost everyone on this forum , and uk wide , wanted them out. However , they are gone , and this isnt about the tories , but the word unelectable. Keir starmer wasn't elected because labour are electable. He was coronated off the back of a disgraceful anti democratic political system that rewards failure with seats. how do you know reform won't rise up , after a disastrous few years of labour , the inability of the tories to shake off liberal centrists who offer nothing more than starmers status quo? you can't think outside the box , or have the vision to see the old two party political system is on its knees? Who cares what battleground a minor party like the tories want to fight on. I would say that's the least of no mandate starmers worries. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 9, 2024 14:24:52 GMT
"!4 years in the wilderness against arguably the worst prime minister leading the worst Conservative Party in whats supposed to be a two horse race and the best labour can do is 33.7 % of the turnout?" Which was still enough to utterly trounce the Tories, what does that tell you about the Tories popularity? I'm not in denial about the flaws in our electoral system, I've commented on them myself before. But this is the battleground the Tories will have to fight the next election on, complaining about it now inevitably raises the question of why they didn't they do anything about it when they were in power? I didnt vote for the tories , and almost everyone on this forum , and uk wide , wanted them out. However , they are gone , and this isnt about the tories , but the word unelectable. Keir starmer wasn't elected because labour are electable. He was coronated off the back of a disgraceful anti democratic political system that rewards failure with seats. how do you know reform won't rise up , after a disastrous few years of labour , the inability of the tories to shake off liberal centrists who offer nothing more than starmers status quo? you can't think outside the box , or have the vision to see the old two party political system is on its knees? Who cares what battleground a minor party like the tories want to fight on. I would say that's the least of no mandate starmers worries. A thread about who will replace Sunak as Tory leader isn't about the Tories? |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 14:31:14 GMT
I didnt vote for the tories , and almost everyone on this forum , and uk wide , wanted them out. However , they are gone , and this isnt about the tories , but the word unelectable. Keir starmer wasn't elected because labour are electable. He was coronated off the back of a disgraceful anti democratic political system that rewards failure with seats. how do you know reform won't rise up , after a disastrous few years of labour , the inability of the tories to shake off liberal centrists who offer nothing more than starmers status quo? you can't think outside the box , or have the vision to see the old two party political system is on its knees? Who cares what battleground a minor party like the tories want to fight on. I would say that's the least of no mandate starmers worries. A thread about who will replace Sunak as Tory leader isn't about the Tories? come now , threads wander as they do , and we were discussing starmers so called electability. I can understand why in the face of such a dismal vote share you dont want to discuss it further , but I predict as long as labour are in government this term , the lack of mandate will haunt starmer in all that he does. Clearly as red said starmer is unelectable. The system protecting his non existent mandate doesn't change that fact. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 9, 2024 14:46:51 GMT
A thread about who will replace Sunak as Tory leader isn't about the Tories? come now , threads wander as they do , and we were discussing starmers so called electability. I can understand why in the face of such a dismal vote share you dont want to discuss it further , but I predict as long as labour are in government this term , the lack of mandate will haunt starmer in all that he does. Clearly as red said starmer is unelectable. The system protecting his non existent mandate doesn't change that fact. A man who just won a General Election with a 170 seat majority is unelectable? Ok........ |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 14:54:07 GMT
come now , threads wander as they do , and we were discussing starmers so called electability. I can understand why in the face of such a dismal vote share you dont want to discuss it further , but I predict as long as labour are in government this term , the lack of mandate will haunt starmer in all that he does. Clearly as red said starmer is unelectable. The system protecting his non existent mandate doesn't change that fact. A man who just won a General Election with a 170 seat majority is unelectable? Ok........ a man given a 170 seat majority by a dodgy system that rewards failure is unelectable. 2/10 of the electorate supported him in the face of the worst tory administration in history and you imply he really is electable? the most unequal election result in the western worlds history since universal suffrage. Farage got four million votes , got four seats , the liberals got less and got 72? no mandate starmer and dodgy ed Davey. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 9, 2024 14:58:54 GMT
A man who just won a General Election with a 170 seat majority is unelectable? Ok........ a man given a 170 seat majority by a dodgy system that rewards failure is unelectable. 2/10 of the electorate supported him in the face of the worst tory administration in history and you imply he really is electable? the most unequal election result in the western worlds history since universal suffrage. Farage got four million votes , got four seats , the liberals got less and got 72? no mandate starmer and dodgy ed Davey. A man who wins a landslide election is by definition demonstrably electable. You can pick holes in the electoral system all you want but those were the agreed rules of engagement which Starmer won a comprehensive victory under thus proving himself electable. Talk about vote share puts me in mind of a football fan who's team just got tonked 5-0 saying that really they won because they had more possession and corners. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 15:05:23 GMT
a man given a 170 seat majority by a dodgy system that rewards failure is unelectable. 2/10 of the electorate supported him in the face of the worst tory administration in history and you imply he really is electable? the most unequal election result in the western worlds history since universal suffrage. Farage got four million votes , got four seats , the liberals got less and got 72? no mandate starmer and dodgy ed Davey. A man who wins a landslide election is by definition demonstrably electable. a man who takes 33.7 % of the turnout , or 20% of the electorate support hasn't won anything. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 9, 2024 15:07:57 GMT
A man who wins a landslide election is by definition demonstrably electable. a man who takes 33.7 % of the turnout , or 20% of the electorate support hasn't won anything. He's won a general election, this is factual, observable reality. |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 15:08:26 GMT
a man given a 170 seat majority by a dodgy system that rewards failure is unelectable. 2/10 of the electorate supported him in the face of the worst tory administration in history and you imply he really is electable? the most unequal election result in the western worlds history since universal suffrage. Farage got four million votes , got four seats , the liberals got less and got 72? no mandate starmer and dodgy ed Davey. You can pick holes in the electoral system all you want but those were the agreed rules of engagement which Starmer won a comprehensive victory under thus proving himself electable. Talk about vote share puts me in mind of a football fan who's team just got tonked 5-0 saying that really they won because they had more possession and corners. who agreed the rules? Wasn't first post the post designed a century ago by people along dead after universal suffrage? the golden benchmark that is the norm for a majority government is 40% under the so called normal agree rules, starmer fell well short hence the outcry. can you show me a majority uk government in modern history with such a low minority support ? |
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Post by thomas on Jul 9, 2024 15:09:52 GMT
a man who takes 33.7 % of the turnout , or 20% of the electorate support hasn't won anything. He's won a general election, this is factual, observable reality. he hasn't. He has been awarded a disproportionate victory , and im saying the public should be calling out such political injustice. Im happy if labour become the largest party with a third of seats. Not two thirds. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Jul 9, 2024 16:29:57 GMT
He's won a general election, this is factual, observable reality. he hasn't. He has been awarded a disproportionate victory , and im saying the public should be calling out such political injustice. Im happy if labour become the largest party with a third of seats. Not two thirds. Again, you can question the system all you want but that was the rules of engagement all of the competitors agreed to abide by and Starmer won by miles. If the Tories want to even compete at the next GE they need to come up with a plan that works within the system we have not the one you think we should have. |
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