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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 9, 2024 10:59:38 GMT
The greatest blunder of the entire EU experiment and one that may yet be it's downfall, is the complete failure of the unelected presidents and commissioners to 'listen' to electorates all over Europe who have never been comfortable with mass immigration. As I've reminded the terminally cloth-eared here on many previous occasions, immigration remains a prerogative of individual member states; it is not an EU competence.
If Germany decides to admit a million Syrians, or the UK in its day a million subcontinentals, that is not a matter that 'Brussels' has any say over.
As I've constantly reminded terminally cloth eared remainiacs, the EU impose stiff financial penalties on member states who refuse to accept their 'quota' of criminals/immigrants/asylum seekers, call them what you will. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36202490#:~:text=Countries%20refusing%20to%20accept%20their,that%20have%20carried%20the%20burden. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 11:00:03 GMT
It doesn't appear as a failure from this end of the telescope. It's Britain that appears that way, its future as a remote province and vassal tributary of Chimerica is distinctly unappealing from the European perspective.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 11:04:03 GMT
As I've reminded the terminally cloth-eared here on many previous occasions, immigration remains a prerogative of individual member states; it is not an EU competence.
If Germany decides to admit a million Syrians, or the UK in its day a million subcontinentals, that is not a matter that 'Brussels' has any say over.
As I've constantly reminded terminally cloth eared remainiacs, the EU impose stiff financial penalties on member states who refuse to accept their 'quota' of criminals/immigrants/asylum seekers, call them what you will. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36202490#:~:text=Countries%20refusing%20to%20accept%20their,that%20have%20carried%20the%20burden. If you bothered to read your own link you'd have discovered that the 'burden' under contention refers to 'immigrants' which particular member states have admitted, and that the EU is only implementing the decisions (again made by member states) to share the 'burden'.
If member states hadn't let them in there'd be no burden to share.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 9, 2024 11:07:31 GMT
It doesn't appear as a failure from this end of the telescope. It's Britain that appears that way, its future as a remote province and vassal tributary of Chimerica is distinctly unappealing from the European perspective. Maybe turn it around then, you might get a wider vision. We were always a vassal American state since we needed them more than they needed us. If the EU were so bothered by it they could have stopped the UK being used as such the whole time we were part of the EU, but it seems it might have also been to their advantage. The same as they were an American vassal state at the start of the troubles in Ukraine, they saw the advantage as being the eventual winner by having control over Ukraine as well as a foothold in Russian politics. Which has rather backfired on them. Just pointing a few things out, I know it will never change your mind. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 9, 2024 11:08:38 GMT
So your unwavering support for the EU is based on an unproven theory that is over a century out of date? Unwilling to change with the times, or reality; just like the EU. Makes sense now. All The Best I did waver over posting that knowing the over-literal responses that were likely to result but then thought, fuck it, you can't keep pandering to the mental midgets here. Mackinder's idea ONLY makes sense in world where a largely Democratic Europe seeks to export Democracy and control the nations in exports it to, and (more importantly) their socio-economic assets, via the medium of Colonialism. Not sure how up to date you are; but Colonialism is dead. How does Mackinder's broken theory stack up against the reality of China being the real Global Superpower now? How does a United Europe, or even Single State Europe hold its own politically and economically against the largest of its external importers? Europe was almost wholly silent when Russia annexed the Crimea because of the EU's reliance on Russian energy. Heck, most of Europe was shamefully silent in the initial phases of Russia's invasion of Ukraine for the same reason, and only started to show some spine AFTER they had sourced other energy providers. China now accounts for 20% of all imports to the Eu - the EU are not going to stand up to China, and so they have no "command of the world". In its ideological desire for ever greater expansion the EU has even accepted Russian puppet states into the EU; thereby being emasculated by its myopic "ideology over practicality" approach to the world. You've fallen into the same trap that Neo-Liberal Capitalists fall into when quoting Adam Smith's Wealth Of Nations; you've forgotten, or conveniently ignored, the fact that the world has moved on since those theories were written. All The Best |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 11:15:16 GMT
I tend to focus on the larger picture and believe that the only way Europeans can insulate themselves from an increasingly fractious and over-populated world is to band together socially, economically, politically and militarily. The EU provides a framework for that, a very imperfect one for sure, but at least it's a start and something to build on.
The individual countries (including the UK) are too puny to thrive, or even survive, in a world increasingly dominated by giant power blocs and tens of millions of climate refugees. Their only chance is to stay together and create a Festung Europa.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 9, 2024 11:37:07 GMT
If you bothered to read your own link you'd have discovered that the 'burden' under contention refers to 'immigrants' which particular member states have admitted, and that the EU is only implementing the decisions (again made by member states) to share the 'burden'.
If member states hadn't let them in there'd be no burden to share.
Dont talk bloody rubbish. Mass immigration is being imposed on member states by the EU. The EU set a fine of €250,000 per migrant for countries that refuse EU-imposed quotas for the resettlement of asylum-seekers - link |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 9, 2024 11:41:58 GMT
I tend to focus on the larger picture and believe that the only way Europeans can insulate themselves from an increasingly fractious and over-populated world is to band together socially, economically, politically and militarily. The EU provides a framework for that, a very imperfect one for sure, but at least it's a start and something to build on. The individual countries (including the UK) are too puny to thrive, or even survive, in a world increasingly dominated by giant power blocs and tens of millions of climate refugees. Their only chance is to stay together and create a Festung Europa. And then do the EU thing and let that Population Overspill into the EU for ideological reasons rather than accounting for the practicalities. The EU IS imperfect, so fatally imperfect that the higher-ups are ideologically blinded to the fact THEY are destroying the EU from within. All The Best |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 11:47:21 GMT
Dont talk bloody rubbish. Mass immigration is being imposed on member states by the EU. The EU set a fine of €250,000 per migrant for countries that refuse EU-imposed quotas for the resettlement of asylum-seekers - linkYou seem to want to stubbornly ignore the fact that the EU is implementing a majority decision made by the European Council to 'share the burden' of unwanted asylum seekers earlier admitted by some individual member states, primarily Greece and Italy.
The EU has no option but to implement such decisions.
The EU itself has no authority to impose migrants of whatever sort on any individual member state. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 9, 2024 11:54:57 GMT
Dont talk bloody rubbish. Mass immigration is being imposed on member states by the EU. The EU set a fine of €250,000 per migrant for countries that refuse EU-imposed quotas for the resettlement of asylum-seekers - linkYou seem to want to stubbornly ignore the fact that the EU is implementing a majority decision made by the European Council to 'share the burden' of unwanted asylum seekers earlier admitted by some individual member states, primarily Greece and Italy.
The EU has no option but to implement such decisions.
The EU itself has no authority to impose migrants of whatever sort on any individual member state. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
You stubbornly refuse to accept the fact, and it is a fact, that the EU impose fines of €250,000 per migrant for EU states that refuse EU imposed migrant quotas. See previous links provided. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 12:07:52 GMT
I'm well aware of the proposal to impose such fines but that doesn't alter the fact that the plan to 'share the burden' was approved by the European Council and the EU was subsequently authorised (again by the EC) to impose sanctions on member states that either refused to comply with the decision or, like Poland, reneged on an earlier commitment.
You are ascribing powers to the EU that they simply do not have, indicating a basic ignorance of the way it works.
It's very tiresome having to explain all this over and over again.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 9, 2024 12:32:46 GMT
I'm well aware of the proposal to impose such fines but that doesn't alter the fact that the plan to 'share the burden' was approved by the European Council and the EU was subsequently authorised (again by the EC) to impose sanctions on member states that either refused to comply with the decision or, like Poland, reneged on an earlier commitment. You are ascribing powers to the EU that they simply do not have, indicating a basic ignorance of the way it works. It's very tiresome having to explain all this over and over again. You are being incredibly intransigent. Tell me Dan who, in your opinion, is imposing huge fines on member states who refuse to accept EU migrant quotas? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 12:43:04 GMT
The EU, of course. It's part of their job to implement decisions of the European Council, which may involve imposing sanctions on individual member states who refuse to comply with those decisions.
Weren't you aware of that?
For someone who rabbits on at such length about the EU you seem remarkably poorly informed about what it is and what it does.
Perhaps there ought to be a test before the next referendum to weed out those who shout a lot but actually know very little.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 9, 2024 14:14:42 GMT
The EU, of course. It's part of their job to implement decisions of the European Council, which may involve imposing sanctions on individual member states who refuse to comply with those decisions. Weren't you aware of that? For someone who rabbits on at such length about the EU you seem remarkably poorly informed about what it is and what it does. Perhaps there ought to be a test before the next referendum to weed out those who shout a lot but actually know very little. Dan, you're being very disingenuous, intentionally I think. Migrant quotas imposed on member states are ' EU' migrant quotas. The fines imposed on member states for refusing to accept those quotas are imposed by the ' EU'. Stop pissing about. link |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 9, 2024 14:53:14 GMT
You seem to want to stubbornly ignore the fact that the EU is implementing a majority decision made by the European Council to 'share the burden' of unwanted asylum seekers earlier admitted by some individual member states, primarily Greece and Italy.
The EU has no option but to implement such decisions.
The EU itself has no authority to impose migrants of whatever sort on any individual member state. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
You stubbornly refuse to accept the fact, and it is a fact, that the EU impose fines of €250,000 per migrant for EU states that refuse EU imposed migrant quotas. See previous links provided. That was a proposal from 2016 - never fully implemented. The actually implemented fine is €20,000 - LINK
All The Best |
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