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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 8, 2024 20:43:09 GMT
The Commission for starters. But even you must be aware that there is much more to the EU than that. Starting at the bottom with the 450 million EU citizens of the 27 member states and working up from there.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 8, 2024 20:45:07 GMT
The taxed are not the organisation they're forking out for.
And they're not asked if they want to keep paying.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 8, 2024 20:49:55 GMT
I'm not here hold a candle for Juncker but surely no one with any political nous can make the case that Farage et al added any value to the European project in the broader sense. He and his camp followers were simply demolition operatives.
Can anyone show how Farage's nihilism has been in the interests of the British people?
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 8, 2024 20:54:30 GMT
The taxed are not the organisation they're forking out for. And they're not asked if they want to keep paying. In terms of the taxed, you are in danger of overegging the pudding. The entire budget of the EU is just a little more than 1% of the total GDP.
Not so very much more than the UK is spending on foreign aid.
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 8, 2024 21:18:19 GMT
The Commission for starters. But even you must be aware that there is much more to the EU than that. Starting at the bottom with the 450 million EU citizens of the 27 member states and working up from there. You couldn't have it more wrong. The problem with the EU is that it doesn't start at the bottom. The people have to give way to the EU's dirigiste approach, the unelected intelligentsia know what's best for 450 million minions. EU wisdom entails that governing can only be entrusted to a self appointed elite, rather than giving voice to the common people. The self-appointed intelligentsia of an elite lay down the rules to less wise people (common people) who carry said rules out. See the fact of the matter that smokey bacon crisps will be taken away as a moderate choice to snack on, because those self-appointed at the top know what's better for the little people like you. You cede yourselves to them as voiceless and choiceless. They tell you what to do and how to do it, not the other way round.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 8, 2024 21:26:30 GMT
Have it ever occured to you that the EU does not want to reform? It depends what you mean by 'the EU'. The Commission and Parliament. From what I see there is overwhelming consensus for the goal of ever closer union - and, at no point in the last 50 years, has that goal been rejected.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 8, 2024 21:36:46 GMT
UKIP didn't campaign to add to the "European Project" they campaigned to leave because it was unreformable and imposed without democratic consent.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 7:19:23 GMT
It depends what you mean by 'the EU'. The Commission and Parliament. From what I see there is overwhelming consensus for the goal of ever closer union - and, at no point in the last 50 years, has that goal been rejected. You forgot the European Council whose members are democratically elected by the 440 million and who, when push comes to shove, are really in charge of the entire show.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 9, 2024 7:59:23 GMT
The Commission and Parliament. From what I see there is overwhelming consensus for the goal of ever closer union - and, at no point in the last 50 years, has that goal been rejected. You forgot the European Council whose members are democratically elected by the 440 million and who, when push comes to shove, are really in charge of the entire show.
You have always lived in this world that somehow an EU superstate is the answer to all of Europe's problems, which stems back to the end of WW2 when people had become so war weary, they had to stop at Germany when Churchill wanted to keep going to take out the Russians when they were so weakened by fighting Nazis. Even when it has become obvious the EU is rather an odious set up that would centralise power and expand at any cost.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 10:06:58 GMT
Guilty as charged M'Lud.
It's called Geopolitics. Since studying the works of Montesquieu, Mahan, Mackinder, Haushofer et al over 40 years ago I've been a keen student of the subject.
"Who rules Central and Eastern Europe commands the Heartland. Who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island. Who rules the World-Island commands the World."
Halford Mackinder, Democratic Ideals and Reality, 1919
This is why I believe future historians will refer to Brexit as the greatest geo-strategic blunder since the loss of the American colonies.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 9, 2024 10:21:59 GMT
Guilty as charged M'Lud. It's called Geopolitics. Since studying the works of Montesquieu, Mahan, Mackinder, Haushofer et al over 40 years ago I've been a keen student of the subject. "Who rules Central and Eastern Europe commands the Heartland. Who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island. Who rules the World-Island commands the World." Halford Mackinder, Democratic Ideals and Reality, 1919 This is why I believe future historians will refer to Brexit as the greatest geo-strategic blunder since the loss of the American colonies. So your unwavering support for the EU is based on an unproven theory that is over a century out of date? Unwilling to change with the times, or reality; just like the EU. Makes sense now. All The Best
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 9, 2024 10:29:20 GMT
Guilty as charged M'Lud. It's called Geopolitics. Since studying the works of Montesquieu, Mahan, Mackinder, Haushofer et al over 40 years ago I've been a keen student of the subject. "Who rules Central and Eastern Europe commands the Heartland. Who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island. Who rules the World-Island commands the World." Halford Mackinder, Democratic Ideals and Reality, 1919 This is why I believe future historians will refer to Brexit as the greatest geo-strategic blunder since the loss of the American colonies. The greatest blunder of the entire EU experiment and one that may yet be it's downfall, is the complete failure of the unelected presidents and commissioners to 'listen' to electorates all over Europe who have never been comfortable with mass immigration.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 10:36:09 GMT
The greatest blunder of the entire EU experiment and one that may yet be it's downfall, is the complete failure of the unelected presidents and commissioners to 'listen' to electorates all over Europe who have never been comfortable with mass immigration. As I've reminded the terminally cloth-eared here on many previous occasions, immigration remains a prerogative of individual member states; it is not an EU competence.
If Germany decides to admit a million Syrians, or the UK in its day a million subcontinentals, that is not a matter that 'Brussels' has any say over.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 9, 2024 10:42:51 GMT
So your unwavering support for the EU is based on an unproven theory that is over a century out of date? Unwilling to change with the times, or reality; just like the EU. Makes sense now. All The Best I did waver over posting that knowing the over-literal responses that were likely to result but then thought, fuck it, you can't keep pandering to the mental midgets here.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 9, 2024 10:48:43 GMT
So your unwavering support for the EU is based on an unproven theory that is over a century out of date? Unwilling to change with the times, or reality; just like the EU. Makes sense now. All The Best I did waver over posting that knowing the over-literal responses that were likely to result but then thought, fuck it, you can't keep pandering to the mental midgets here. But the point being it has been an utter failure, it hasn't made Europe a more democratic place, it has railroaded the rest of Europe into a position it never wanted to be in, and expansionism has created yet another war in Europe not being the first of many which could turn a lot uglier at any minute as the players are jostling for position. In all honesty I don't think the Brussels mob even believe their own bullshit any longer.
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