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Post by ratcliff on May 12, 2024 13:56:54 GMT
I see several commentators are suggesting that Elphicke is Labours most right-wing MP ever. Personally I would suggest that title would be held by Sir Oswald Moseley who was a Minister in the Labour Government of Ramsay MacDonald. Although it is arguable just how right-wing Moseley actually was.  I would argue that fascism isn't right wing at all. It's a collective ideology and therefore much more of the left. Far left /far right are the same thing |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 12, 2024 14:10:42 GMT
I would argue that fascism isn't right wing at all. It's a collective ideology and therefore much more of the left. Far left /far right are the same thing Quite likely, but tell that to the lefties. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 12, 2024 14:18:03 GMT
I think allowing Natalie Elphicke to join Labour may have been a defection too far, for Starmer. The defection of an outspoken right wing Tory MP certainly seems to be proving more problematic for Starmer than for Sunak. If Elphicke was unhappy about Sunak's immigration policy, which she claims she was, the obvious choice of party for a right wing Conservative to defect to is Reform UK. But she chose to go in the complete opposite direction and join Labour, a pro EU, pro migrant party, why? . Well, here's a theory. Knowing Starmer would do absolutely anything to give the impression he has got one over the Tories, maybe she offered herself to Labour knowing full-well the turmoil it would stir-up within Labour because - as you pointed out - Elphicke is about as much a natural fit for Labour as pork pie is at a bar mitzvah. The question is: is anyone within the Tory's ranks of Spads devious enough to come up with such a gambit? Well, we know of one: Dominic Cummings. We also know that allegedly Sunak has had secret talks with Cummings about bringing him back on board for the General Election campaign. All The Best I think any secret talks between Cummings and Sunak may have come to nothing. Just a few days ago Cummings unveiled plans for a new party which he claims could replace the Conservatives. www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/09/dominic-cummings-unveils-plans-for-new-party-replace-tories/ |
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Post by ProVeritas on May 12, 2024 15:23:27 GMT
Well, here's a theory. Knowing Starmer would do absolutely anything to give the impression he has got one over the Tories, maybe she offered herself to Labour knowing full-well the turmoil it would stir-up within Labour because - as you pointed out - Elphicke is about as much a natural fit for Labour as pork pie is at a bar mitzvah. The question is: is anyone within the Tory's ranks of Spads devious enough to come up with such a gambit? Well, we know of one: Dominic Cummings. We also know that allegedly Sunak has had secret talks with Cummings about bringing him back on board for the General Election campaign. All The Best according to Cummings and the Indy - do you think he'd be trusted? No more or less than any other MP or advisor - most of whom have been caught lying numerous times. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on May 12, 2024 17:09:21 GMT
I see several commentators are suggesting that Elphicke is Labours most right-wing MP ever. Personally I would suggest that title would be held by Sir Oswald Moseley who was a Minister in the Labour Government of Ramsay MacDonald. Although it is arguable just how right-wing Moseley actually was. I would argue that fascism isn't right wing at all. It's a collective ideology and therefore much more of the left. Yes - that is a fair point. It certainly bears no resemblance to what are said to be right-wing parties today. |
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Post by ProVeritas on May 12, 2024 17:16:29 GMT
Fascism kind of sits at that weird junction where the extreme left and and extreme right loop around and meet one another.
It has elements of both the extreme left and extreme right.
All The Best
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 12, 2024 19:16:37 GMT
Fascism kind of sits at that weird junction where the extreme left and and extreme right loop around and meet one another. It has elements of both the extreme left and extreme right. All The Best Thing is, we see allegations of "Far Right" being slung every day by self avowed leftists.
But they don't realise that every time they point that finger, it points straight back at them.
But then lefties have never been the brightest sparks.
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Post by dodgydave on May 12, 2024 19:25:47 GMT
Plenty of reports that Labour MPs are angry with Starmer. The self-proclaimed "man of principle" lets a women with some horrendous opinions into his party just to score a cheap political point. Just confirms what I have been saying all along, Starmer is just another Boris type who wants to be "World King" and has zero actual convictions. Starmer, like Blair before him, has only one principle - do anything to obtain / retain power. As much as I disagree with so much of what people like Jeremy Corbyn stands for, I'd trust him over Starmer any day - because he had principles he refused to compromise on; yes those principle led to his defeat, but at least you knew where he stood in key issues, even if you disagreed with him. I don't know what Starmer stands for, and I suspect neither does he - because he's never actually had to stand up and be counted for anything. All The Best Erm no. The idiot would have won a landslide if he had stuck to his principles. The man literally spent 30 years doing speech after speech speaking out against the EC / EU, then come the referendum he kept quiet to appease Momentum... when it came to the crunch, the man showed he was a coward. |
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Post by ProVeritas on May 12, 2024 20:07:41 GMT
Fascism kind of sits at that weird junction where the extreme left and and extreme right loop around and meet one another. It has elements of both the extreme left and extreme right. All The Best Thing is, we see allegations of "Far Right" being slung every day by self avowed leftists.
But they don't realise that every time they point that finger, it points straight back at them.
But then lefties have never been the brightest sparks.
Oh there's an irony. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on May 12, 2024 20:09:56 GMT
Starmer, like Blair before him, has only one principle - do anything to obtain / retain power. As much as I disagree with so much of what people like Jeremy Corbyn stands for, I'd trust him over Starmer any day - because he had principles he refused to compromise on; yes those principle led to his defeat, but at least you knew where he stood in key issues, even if you disagreed with him. I don't know what Starmer stands for, and I suspect neither does he - because he's never actually had to stand up and be counted for anything. All The Best Erm no. The idiot would have won a landslide if he had stuck to his principles. The man literally spent 30 years doing speech after speech speaking out against the EC / EU, then come the referendum he kept quiet to appease Momentum... when it came to the crunch, the man showed he was a coward. Yes he did. But he had to tone that down or face a leadership challenge from the Centre-Right Blairites that still had too much control of the Parliamentary Party. All The Best |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 12, 2024 20:22:07 GMT
Thing is, we see allegations of "Far Right" being slung every day by self avowed leftists.
But they don't realise that every time they point that finger, it points straight back at them.
But then lefties have never been the brightest sparks.
Oh there's an irony. All The Best Indeed, Nulla.
Shame you missed it.  |
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Post by dodgydave on May 12, 2024 23:52:40 GMT
Erm no. The idiot would have won a landslide if he had stuck to his principles. The man literally spent 30 years doing speech after speech speaking out against the EC / EU, then come the referendum he kept quiet to appease Momentum... when it came to the crunch, the man showed he was a coward. Yes he did. But he had to tone that down or face a leadership challenge from the Centre-Right Blairites that still had too much control of the Parliamentary Party. All The Best Like I said he is a coward. If he had stuck to his principles there was no way Labour could have replaced him after Leave won. |
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Post by andrewbrown on May 13, 2024 5:51:59 GMT
I think allowing Natalie Elphicke to join Labour may have been a defection too far, for Starmer. The defection of an outspoken right wing Tory MP certainly seems to be proving more problematic for Starmer than for Sunak. If Elphicke was unhappy about Sunak's immigration policy, which she claims she was, the obvious choice of party for a right wing Conservative to defect to is Reform UK. But she chose to go in the complete opposite direction and join Labour, a pro EU, pro migrant party, why? A rhetorical question of course. Elphicke is trying to save her own skin, she's desperately trying to hang onto her seat and if that means abandoning her long held right wing Tory beliefs and principles, so be it. Her constituents are unhappy with her, many Tory MP's are saying good riddance to bad news, and many Labour MP's are not happy about the situation. Starmer was, initially, cock-a-hoop at her defection. On reflection I doubt he will be so happy about it now. She's not desperately trying to save her own skin as she's already announced that she's standing down. 😉 |
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Post by ProVeritas on May 13, 2024 7:00:05 GMT
Yes he did. But he had to tone that down or face a leadership challenge from the Centre-Right Blairites that still had too much control of the Parliamentary Party. All The Best Like I said he is a coward. If he had stuck to his principles there was no way Labour could have replaced him after Leave won. They would have replaced him before leave even happened; and then likely prevented it from happening. All The Best |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2024 7:21:37 GMT
Fascism kind of sits at that weird junction where the extreme left and and extreme right loop around and meet one another. It has elements of both the extreme left and extreme right. All The Best Thing is, we see allegations of "Far Right" being slung every day by self avowed leftists.
But they don't realise that every time they point that finger, it points straight back at them.
But then lefties have never been the brightest sparks.
They hide behind their collective whilst feeling safe amongst their brainwashed retards. |
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