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Post by jonksy on May 8, 2024 6:45:04 GMT
^^ Either lives in an alternate universe or is brainwashed by his own lies. islamists. Islamists everywhere. And many more to come if starmer infests no 10... |
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Post by thomas on May 8, 2024 6:47:32 GMT
islamists. Islamists everywhere. And many more to come if starmer infests no 10... not sure there will be jonsky. The point about Galloways mob and whats happening regarding the events in the Middle East is that islam is turning away from the Labour Party from what little we can see. So hopefully that a few million more votes labour have lost. Every cloud and its silver lining and all that. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 8, 2024 6:47:35 GMT
I'm in favor of PR but it has to be remembered that just because a system is more representative it doesn't necessarily produce better governance.
The recent examples of Scotland and Israel would highlight this.
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Post by thomas on May 8, 2024 6:51:28 GMT
I'm in favor of PR but it has to be remembered that just because a system is more representative it doesn't necessarily produce better governance. The recent examples of Scotland and Israel would highlight this. false equation there. You might not agree with the governments of either Israel or scotland , but you can't decide that those who voted them in dont support the general governance and its quality. The point though is when the uk system , and its out of date fptp two party stitch up is possibly about to produce a massive landslide for one party off the back of less than potentially a fifth of the uk electorate , I defy anyone to defend such anti democracy. I want my vote to count dont you? The defenders of the status quo are dwindling in number each year. Its a question of when not if Westminster changes. |
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Post by jonksy on May 8, 2024 6:53:19 GMT
And many more to come if starmer infests no 10... not sure there will be jonsky. The point about Galloways mob and whats happening regarding the events in the Middle East is that islam is turning away from the Labour Party from what little we can see. So hopefully that a few million more votes labour have lost. Every cloud and its silver lining and all that. You can bet your last dollar there will be Tom. Starmer is stuck so far up the mossies rectum it would take a winch and a surgeon to remove him. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 8, 2024 7:15:05 GMT
I'm in favor of PR but it has to be remembered that just because a system is more representative it doesn't necessarily produce better governance. The recent examples of Scotland and Israel would highlight this. false equation there. You might not agree with the governments of either Israel or scotland , but you can't decide that those who voted them in dont support the general governance and its quality. But that is no different from FPTP - those that vote for the majority party that gets into power tend to be happier than those that don't. I'm talking about the quality of governance - and by no stretch of the imagination could anyone claim that governance in Scotland has been better than anywhere else in the UK. |
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Post by witchfinder on May 8, 2024 9:53:38 GMT
From the Electoral Commission website ..... "The UK has low levels of proven electoral fraud"
"There remains no evidence of large-scale electoral fraud in 2019"
In 2019 there were Local Elections, By-Elections, Mayoral Elections and a General Election, there were a total of 595 ALLEGED fraud cases, of which there were five convictions.
From "THE CONVERSATION" ..... "Boris Johnson: if even the prime minister who introduced voter ID can forget his, do we need a rethink?"
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Post by ProVeritas on May 8, 2024 10:35:03 GMT
Think about this The returning officers department at your local authority, sends you a card with a reference number on which is your specific, individual number. The card is addressed tou you, these days the number is concealed until you open it. You take your card along to the polling station, and the teller or clerk verifies your number against the electoral registar. No system is watertight against fraud, but its pretty good, and at the last general election, voter fraud was almost non-existent. There was never any need to bring in phot ID checks, because voter fraud is not an issue of any significance, it was merely an attempt by the government to supress voters from certain social groups from bothering to vote. So why did the Labour Party decide to implement photo ID?. Labour attempted to bring it in for two reasons; primarily because they were a right-wing government run by a man who idolised Thatcher (MSRIH) - in fact Labour were really only picking up a policy idea from John Major and Michael Howard, and 2) it was a knee-jerk over-reaction to the 9/11 WTC Terrorist Attacks, because Tony Blair was a lap-dog for Bush. However, they never actually managed to roll it out nationwide for everyone, instead engaging in a series of "trial areas" some geographic and some based on qualifying criteria. The legislation was repealed by May's 2011 Government before it had chance to be fully rolled out. Also, crucial to point out that a) grass-roots Labour Members opposed it, and b) initially the Tories did not oppose it. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on May 8, 2024 10:45:46 GMT
So why did the Labour Party decide to implement photo ID?. Labour attempted to bring it in for two reasons; primarily because they were a right-wing government run by a man who idolised Thatcher (MSRIH) - in fact Labour were really only picking up a policy idea from John Major and Michael Howard, and 2) it was a knee-jerk over-reaction to the 9/11 WTC Terrorist Attacks, because Tony Blair was a lap-dog for Bush. However, they never actually managed to roll it out nationwide for everyone, instead engaging in a series of "trial areas" some geographic and some based on qualifying criteria. The legislation was repealed by May's 2011 Government before it had chance to be fully rolled out. Also, crucial to point out that a) grass-roots Labour Members opposed it, and b) initially the Tories did not oppose it. All The Best Every Labour MP supported its introduction Looks to be more the case that: Labour introduce policy - good, good. The tories introduce the same policy - bad, bad. Simply partisan politics. |
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Post by dodgydave on May 8, 2024 10:51:15 GMT
I'm in favor of PR but it has to be remembered that just because a system is more representative it doesn't necessarily produce better governance. The recent examples of Scotland and Israel would highlight this. false equation there. You might not agree with the governments of either Israel or scotland , but you can't decide that those who voted them in dont support the general governance and its quality. The point though is when the uk system , and its out of date fptp two party stitch up is possibly about to produce a massive landslide for one party off the back of less than potentially a fifth of the uk electorate , I defy anyone to defend such anti democracy. I want my vote to count dont you? The defenders of the status quo are dwindling in number each year. Its a question of when not if Westminster changes. Your vote does count, you elect an MP to represent you. The person with the most votes then becomes the MP. Under PR the parties would splinter, but they would come together to form a coalition, so you would still get a government that is centre left or centre right. The other problem with PR is that you end up with more General Elections as the coalitions fall apart, so the parties become even more short term minded! |
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Post by ProVeritas on May 8, 2024 10:51:22 GMT
I'm in favor of PR but it has to be remembered that just because a system is more representative it doesn't necessarily produce better governance.The recent examples of Scotland and Israel would highlight this. Now here I agree with you. However, with PR I do believe that more people will feel they have a chance to be fairly and proportionately represented by the political process. The hope then is that as they feel their vote actually means something they might care more about where they put that vote and better educate themselves about politics in this country. Far too many people in this country still vote how their parents did, for no other reason than that is what they were raised to think was the right way to decide politics. I was the first person on either side of my family since the founding of the Labour Party not to vote Labour (although my mother did later reveal she had, just once, voted for Thatcher in 1979 - but was too ashamed to admit it until much, much later). I don't believe in "party politics" I believe in "policy politics" - I vote for whichever party I think best represents my beliefs and the best interest of the Nation as a whole. Of course those beliefs change, as circumstances - personal, local, national, and global change. Accordingly I have at various times, in General, Local and EU elections, voted Conservative, UKIP, BNP Labour, Liberal, Green and, increasingly, Independent. But, realistically, in 90% of constituencies under a FPTP system unless I am voting Labour or Conservative I may as well be spoiling my ballot. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on May 8, 2024 10:58:35 GMT
Labour attempted to bring it in for two reasons; primarily because they were a right-wing government run by a man who idolised Thatcher (MSRIH) - in fact Labour were really only picking up a policy idea from John Major and Michael Howard, and 2) it was a knee-jerk over-reaction to the 9/11 WTC Terrorist Attacks, because Tony Blair was a lap-dog for Bush. However, they never actually managed to roll it out nationwide for everyone, instead engaging in a series of "trial areas" some geographic and some based on qualifying criteria. The legislation was repealed by May's 2011 Government before it had chance to be fully rolled out. Also, crucial to point out that a) grass-roots Labour Members opposed it, and b) initially the Tories did not oppose it. All The Best Every Labour MP supported its introduction Looks to be more the case that: Labour introduce policy - good, good. The tories introduce the same policy - bad, bad. Simply partisan politics. I was opposed to the Labour ID scheme, even more so than the voter ID scheme. Also, some of the Labour Cabinet were originally opposed to Labour's ID scheme, they were subsequently whipped in to towing the party line. As I said I am not opposed to some for of ID Scheme in principle; the devil is in the details of who, what, how and why. Who has access to that data, and does the individual "own" their data (this should be the case IMO) or does the State; who can the State then grant access to that date. What reasons are acceptable for accessing that data. How is that data stored, managed, curated, and accessed. Why is that data needed, why was the ID scheme introduced, why would someone have access to that data. All of those are vitally important issues that need both careful consideration and precise solutions. Labour's ID Scheme potentially had 50+ metrics for each person - it was, in effect, Big Brother. All The Best |
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Post by sheepy on May 8, 2024 13:34:56 GMT
Perfect example of the Westminster party doing and wanting the same thing, just going about it slightly differently, Labour this is what you will be getting from big brother and like it or lump it, the Conservative branch you will be getting it but we will just creep up on you.
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Post by Pacifico on May 8, 2024 14:40:36 GMT
Perfect example of the Westminster party doing and wanting the same thing, just going about it slightly differently, Labour this is what you will be getting from big brother and like it or lump it, the Conservative branch you will be getting it but we will just creep up on you.Fair point - it's the same with taxation. Labour introduce punitive headline rises in taxes, the Tories introduce stealth taxes.. ...either way you still end up paying a lot more tax. Two cheeks of the same arse. |
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Post by bancroft on May 8, 2024 14:40:41 GMT
Islamists take votes away from Labour.
Greens from both parties.
Reform might take votes from Labour in the north.
Hung parliament is a possibility and if so deals will need to be done.
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