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Post by Ripley on Aug 18, 2024 18:22:08 GMT
No, I have already answered your questions and I am not deflecting. If you lack the smarts to see that then so be it. And we already have democracy in Scotland, or at least as much as in any other part of the country and certainly more than our fellow citizens in England have. I think that it should proceed just as it is doing, with the proviso that we need to drop the current electoral systems at Westminster and Holyrood and introduce PR instead because neither of the existing systems (particularly FPTP) produce democratic outcomes. Exactly, our country is a democracy but the English region is the least represented of all of it.
We're all Brits, but some Brits are more equal than others.
The English are discriminated against. Fix it. Abolish devolution, introduce PR and means tested public spending instead of the Barnett formula.
Did you say that with a straight face, Vinny?
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Post by thomas on Aug 18, 2024 18:23:47 GMT
No, I have already answered your questions and I am not deflecting. If you lack the smarts to see that then so be it. And we already have democracy in Scotland, or at least as much as in any other part of the country and certainly more than our fellow citizens in England have. I think that it should proceed just as it is doing, with the proviso that we need to drop the current electoral systems at Westminster and Holyrood and introduce PR instead because neither of the existing systems (particularly FPTP) produce democratic outcomes. Exactly, our country is a democracy Fix it. Abolish devolution, introduce PR and means tested public spending instead of the Barnett formula.
thick as mince vinny tells us Britain is a democracy one minute, but wants to abolish a democratically voted for institution , which had three quarters of Scots voting in support of , on his own personal whim. I think vinny doesn't understand the meaning of the word democracy. or perhaps it's akin to Putins. will you send in the tanks vinny if we dont abolish Holyrood? psss .Vinny. Scotland Northern Ireland and Wales already have pr. You need to be starting a thread on the English forum for your country to catch up with the rest of us. just saying.
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Post by thomas on Aug 18, 2024 18:25:13 GMT
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland aka Great Britain aka UK is a country. No it is not. It is a UNION of CountrieS. All The Best you will notice how our intrepid brit Nats on the thread have great difficulty understanding words like "union " or kingdom". or wether Northern Ireland is in the uk , but not in GB.
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Post by thomas on Aug 18, 2024 18:30:07 GMT
Exactly, our country is a democracy but the English region is the least represented of all of it.
We're all Brits, but some Brits are more equal than others.
The English are discriminated against. Fix it. Abolish devolution, introduce PR and means tested public spending instead of the Barnett formula.
Did you say that with a straight face, Vinny? the English have 85 % of the representation in parliament , collect everyones taxes and redistribute a few baubles to the Celtic fringe , while scotland cant even control its own energy sector , but the English are the victims. this is what you are up against in these islands , nut jobs like this. The de facto English parliament can literally do as it pleases. It could abolish devolution tomorrow , or grant england independence from the uk and end the union . One wonders why these victims never exercise their power and do so.
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Post by Vinny on Aug 18, 2024 18:30:31 GMT
Exactly, our country is a democracy but the English region is the least represented of all of it.
We're all Brits, but some Brits are more equal than others.
The English are discriminated against. Fix it. Abolish devolution, introduce PR and means tested public spending instead of the Barnett formula.
Did you say that with a straight face, Vinny? Yes. Now, hold a nationwide referendum on abolishing devolution. Tell everyone what a waste of money it is. Replace it with PR a common legal system for the whole country, and direct spending. Replace regional variances in currency with common banknotes for the whole country.
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Post by thomas on Aug 18, 2024 18:40:39 GMT
Did you say that with a straight face, Vinny? Yes. Now, hold a nationwide referendum on abolishing devolution. Tell everyone what a waste of money it is. Replace it with PR a common legal system for the whole country, and direct spending. Replace regional variances in currency with common banknotes for the whole country. lets hold a European wide referendum on abolishing Westminster. Tell everyone what a waste of money it is , with its over the top 650 commons mps , and the House of Lords , with its 26 Church of England bishops on a tiny little island , which has the second biggest legislature in the world. replace it with Brussels
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Post by Vinny on Aug 18, 2024 19:31:19 GMT
No taxation without representation. The English pay for devolution. The English are not represented. Abolish devolution.
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Post by Ripley on Aug 18, 2024 20:21:34 GMT
Did you say that with a straight face, Vinny? the English have 85 % of the representation in parliament , collect everyones taxes and redistribute a few baubles to the Celtic fringe , while scotland cant even control its own energy sector , but the English are the victims. this is what you are up against in these islands , nut jobs like this. The de facto English parliament can literally do as it pleases. It could abolish devolution tomorrow , or grant england independence from the uk and end the union . One wonders why these victims never exercise their power and do so.I think you can answer that. If Scotland were a drain on the UK's coffers, Westminster would deliver independence on a silver platter. But the Scots, who comprise only about 12% of the UK population, are sitting on natural asset resources valued at around 30-34% of the total UK annual value, not so? I'm guessing that is something Westminster doesn't want to pass up.
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Post by happyjack on Aug 18, 2024 21:45:42 GMT
It was a multi national kingdom called great Britain , of which ireland was a part , but at that point didnt send representatives to the English parliament , and instead continued with the colonial parliament in Dublin overseen by the English crown. The clue is in the name happy. The beginnings of the multi national state began in political terms in 1536 , not 1707 , and as the power of the monarchy waned to be replaced by the crown in parliament , the English needed political union to reaffirm control which was previously wielded through the monarchy. What clue is in what name? The Kingdom of Great Britain ( i.e. the country of Great Britain) was formed in 1707 when the pre-existing countries of Scotland and England (inc. Wales) ceased to exist and instead united into a single new country and unitary state. Sure, it remained multi-national when this happened and remained multi-national throughout its 94 year period of existence (and, indeed, there still remains a Scottish nation, an English nation and a Welsh nation to this day) at which point it ceased to exist as a country when it in turn merged or united with The Kingdom of Ireland to form the new successor country and unitary state of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Prior to this second union or merger, Ireland was not part of either England nor of Great Britain, albeit that it was a client state under the control of one or the other for several centuries prior to that event.
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Post by happyjack on Aug 18, 2024 22:19:16 GMT
I have answered your questions either by laying out my thoughts in my earlier post in advance of your post (e.g. what it will take to secure another indyref) - or by pointing you at my recent exchange with morayloon in the SNP section of this place about NI’s 7 year minimum period between referenda ( much of which is actually also contained in a reply I gave to him above - you know, the one that prompted you to first intervene here) - or by pointing out to you that you are putting words in my mouth and assigning positions to me that I have not expressed and/or do not hold ( which I have made clear that I would treat with contempt and which I intend to keep doing). you keep deflecting as normal. You keep waffling about mythical rules that dont exist , and claiming we Scots cant hold a referendum because( insert happy jacks latest waffle). I joined the old forum around the beginning of 2017 , and you quickly came to my attention with your unionist lies , and Jaydee and moray daily rag dolling you around the old forum under your former alias. soapy Souter. I recall a mere 8 months after the Brexit ref , you were among those calling for the result to be overturned , before it had been implemented , so much so you sounded remarkably like a Liberal Democrat I had come across on another forum from Aberdeenshire , who had the same twisted unionist logic . so while demanding Brexit must not be implemented a mer 8 months after the referendum , here you are ten years later waffling nonsense and making up lies about another Scottish indy ref. you dont get to constrain democracy with new rules made up on the hop. That’s quite something that you remember all of that. I should be congratulating you here on your powers of recall but instead I feel that I need to suggest that you seek medical help as your memory and your mind could well be beginning to let you down. Other than the fact that I used the Soapy Souter moniker for the short period (12 months only) that I was on the old forum, not a single detail that you relate about me above is true or anywhere close to the truth. I do not keep deflecting. I have explained where the answers to your original points are and, where there are no such answers, I have explained that is because I will not rise to your cheap chicanery by responding with anything other than unbridled contempt. What mythical rules do I waffle on about that don’t exist and what new rules have I made up on the hop to constrain democracy?
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Post by thomas on Aug 19, 2024 6:16:56 GMT
No taxation without representation. The English pay for devolution. The English are not represented. Abolish devolution. wrong way round vinny. rather than abolishing devolution ,and wasting money , end the uk parliament , and give Westminster back to the English. problem sorted.
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Post by thomas on Aug 19, 2024 6:28:06 GMT
It was a multi national kingdom called great Britain , of which ireland was a part , but at that point didnt send representatives to the English parliament , and instead continued with the colonial parliament in Dublin overseen by the English crown. The clue is in the name happy. The beginnings of the multi national state began in political terms in 1536 , not 1707 , and as the power of the monarchy waned to be replaced by the crown in parliament , the English needed political union to reaffirm control which was previously wielded through the monarchy. What clue is in what name? The Kingdom of Great Britain ( i.e. the country of Great Britain) was formed in 1707 when the pre-existing countries of Scotland and England (inc. Wales) ceased to exist and instead united into a single new country and unitary state. Sure, it remained multi-national when this happened and remained multi-national throughout its 94 year period of existence (and, indeed, there still remains a Scottish nation, an English nation and a Welsh nation to this day) at which point it ceased to exist as a country when it in turn merged or united with The Kingdom of Ireland to form the new successor country and unitary state of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Prior to this second union or merger, Ireland was not part of either England nor of Great Britain, albeit that it was a client state under the control of one or the other for several centuries prior to that event. the kingdom of great Britain , and ireland was a part of it. it wasnt a country .it was a multi national kingdom , with a legislature in London , and a colonial legislature in Dublin. Scotland didnt cease to exist. Wales ceased to exist legally as a country in the 16th century as I explained ,with a series of laws enacted which abolished Wales , made it part of england , and ended the old welsh legal system of hywel da. Then individuals representing the welsh were admitted to the former English only parliament. It was simply re arranging the deckchairs as the power of the monarchy , the dual monarchy , which england thought they could use to control scotland , waned , so they needed the political representation sent to Westminster to curb the threat of Scotlands parliament leaving the kingdom which was created in 1603. not 1707. Do try and keep up. another one like vinny who knows nothing about his own multi national state, yet rants deliriously about it incessantly. Are you now trying to tell me the English king was not king of ireland pre 1603? Ireland was a kingdom of the English crown , ruled by the English crown via its colonial parliament , since the Tudor times , and like scotland ,when the power of. the crown waned , they bribed the irish colonial lords into union in 1801 to maintain Englands power over Ireland. re arranging the deck chairs. So I repeat , there has never in history been a country called great Britain. It is a geographical name , like Scandinavia , or Iberia , an island . always throughout history multi national multi ethnic , as far back as scholastic research can penetrate over two thousand years.
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Post by thomas on Aug 19, 2024 6:35:57 GMT
you keep deflecting as normal. You keep waffling about mythical rules that dont exist , and claiming we Scots cant hold a referendum because( insert happy jacks latest waffle). I joined the old forum around the beginning of 2017 , and you quickly came to my attention with your unionist lies , and Jaydee and moray daily rag dolling you around the old forum under your former alias. soapy Souter. I recall a mere 8 months after the Brexit ref , you were among those calling for the result to be overturned , before it had been implemented , so much so you sounded remarkably like a Liberal Democrat I had come across on another forum from Aberdeenshire , who had the same twisted unionist logic . so while demanding Brexit must not be implemented a mer 8 months after the referendum , here you are ten years later waffling nonsense and making up lies about another Scottish indy ref. you dont get to constrain democracy with new rules made up on the hop. . What mythical rules do I waffle on about that don’t exist and what new rules have I made up on the hop to constrain democracy? ive asked numerous times regarding your alleged rules and timescales of indy referendums. You implied earlier , that the 2014 referendum was a one off opportunity , once in a generation ( a generation never actually being quantified ) once in a lifetime. Your words. You also use a former first ministers alleged words to reinforce this garbage. so I asked which rules of democracy , or law , back this up ? you cant or won't tell me , as they dont exist. the closest we have to a benchmark is as moray and I have said the GFA. every 7 years. upon digging further , showing how much daily shite you talk , I see that between 1714 , and 1978 there were 26 Scottish home rule bills voted on in the uk parliament. in 1979 , there was a devolution referendum , in 1997 , another one , and the independence referendum in 2014. so between 1714 , to 2014 , a 300 year period , there have been 29 votes on Scotlands self rule , approx one every 10.3 years. Not one mention , or law , or democratic rule , that it can only be a one off or once in a generation. By my reckoning happy , we are due another soon.
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Post by Vinny on Aug 19, 2024 6:36:27 GMT
It's rather telling that no devolved government has ever been able to run a budget surplus despite assistance from the Barnett formula.
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Post by thomas on Aug 19, 2024 6:44:05 GMT
the English have 85 % of the representation in parliament , collect everyones taxes and redistribute a few baubles to the Celtic fringe , while scotland cant even control its own energy sector , but the English are the victims. this is what you are up against in these islands , nut jobs like this. The de facto English parliament can literally do as it pleases. It could abolish devolution tomorrow , or grant england independence from the uk and end the union . One wonders why these victims never exercise their power and do so.I think you can answer that. If Scotland were a drain on the UK's coffers, Westminster would deliver independence on a silver platter. But the Scots, who comprise only about 12% of the UK population, are sitting on natural asset resources valued at around 30-34% of the total UK annual value, not so? I'm guessing that is something Westminster doesn't want to pass up. without a doubt Ripley. These people are so mental they keep deluding themselves that england subsidies scotland. Its nothing new though , the idea they went out , colonised countries , and brought civilisation and subsidy to the empire , rather than the other way around. How Britain stole $45 trillion from India And lied about it.
There is a story that is commonly told in Britain that the colonisation of India – as horrible as it may have been – was not of any major economic benefit to Britain itself. If anything, the administration of India was a cost to Britain. So the fact that the empire was sustained for so long – the story goes – was a gesture of Britain’s benevolence.
New research by the renowned economist Utsa Patnaik – just published by Columbia University Press – deals a crushing blow to this narrative. Drawing on nearly two centuries of detailed data on tax and trade, Patnaik calculated that Britain drained a total of nearly $45 trillion from India during the period 1765 to 1938.
It’s a staggering sum. For perspective, $45 trillion is 17 times more than the total annual gross domestic product of the United Kingdom today. www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/19/how-britain-stole-45-trillion-from-india
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