|
Post by Vinny on Apr 25, 2024 6:31:38 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Apr 25, 2024 6:42:01 GMT
Something needs drastically doing to the Rail service in this Country. Even if it means state ownership and I think most of the British public would agree we Can't afford to Subsidise failing rail company's especially when huge payouts go to vShare holders and rail fares increase . And money going out of the Country to foreign rail company's
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Apr 25, 2024 6:42:46 GMT
Going to create an 'arms-length' public body just like the Post Office.. ..what could possibly go wrong..
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Apr 25, 2024 6:46:33 GMT
Something needs drastically doing to the Rail service in this Country. Even if it means state ownership and I think most of the British public would agree we Can't afford to Subsidise failing rail company's especially when huge payouts go to vShare holders and rail fares increase . And money going out of the Country to foreign rail company's Not thanking Brexiteers for making such a thing legally possible? Typical.
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Apr 25, 2024 6:50:46 GMT
Who's going to run it?
And why would they be better/cheaper/more efficient than the current operators?
Those are the questions that need to be answered given that the record of state run enterprise isn't exactly good.
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Apr 25, 2024 7:07:42 GMT
The Hatfield rail crash was a railway accident on 17 October 2000, at Hatfield, Hertfordshire. It was caused by a metal fatigue-induced derailment, killing four people and injuring more than 70.
As early as 1997 Railtrack (the private company in charge of rail infrastructure) was being criticised for lack of investment. In 2002 Railtrack was replaced with publicly owned Network Rail after fatal crashes (the Hatfield rail crash and the Potters Bar crash in the early 2000s). In 2003 private company Connex lost the South Eastern franchise due to its poor financial management. It was run in public hands until 2006. In 2006, the first East Coast line failure - the government removed the franchise from private company Sea Containers after it filed for bankruptcy. In 2009, the second East Coast failure - the line was nationalised after the private operation defaulted on payments and left ministers with a hole in their budget. It became the most efficient franchise in the UK in public hands. Also in 2009, the first £1000 rail fare was revealed. The McNulty report of 2011 found that railway costs in the UK are about 30% higher than elsewhere - we would argue that privatisation with its accountants, lawyers and consultants made the railway less efficient.. In 2018, the third East Coast line failure - Richard Branson’s Virgin and Stagecoach walked away from the line (which had been reprivatised) after failing to make the profits they were expecting. Publicly owned London North Eastern Railway (LNER) took over. In 2020, Northern Trains was brought into public ownership after years of unacceptable delays and cancellations from private company Arriva. In 2021 the Welsh Government took the Welsh railway into public hands when the private franchise collapsed in the pandemic. Also in 2021, Southeastern rail franchise was brought into public ownership after the private company attempted to defraud the taxpayer of £25 million. In 2022 the Scottish Government took over running of the ScotRail franchise following years of delays and cancellations by Abellio. Every year, we waste £1 billion because of our privatised railway - that’s because of the cost of dividends going to shareholders and the inefficiency of privatisation. The state has been indirectly subsidising and propping up private rail companies to make them look successful, through Network Rail’s artificially low track access charges. The private rolling stock companies which own the trains make the biggest profits. During the pandemic their shareholders received nearly £1 billion. Yet neither the rolling stock companies nor the Train Operating Companies have much incentive to invest in new trains - the average age of trains rose after privatisation until 2019 and is only now beginning to drop back down to pre-privatisation levels. Rail fares are rising twice as fast as wages. UK commuters spend up to 5 times as much of their salary on rail fares as other Europeans. The ticketing system is wildly complicated. In 2018, it was found that there are 55 million different tickets! Timetabling is also a problem in our privatised system. Experts Jonathan Tyler and Lynn Sloman say “the entire public transport timetabling process is dysfunctional, hopelessly inefficient…It’s like trying to form a coherent picture from random pieces of different jigsaw puzzles”. Christian Wolmar points out that in other countries like France and Germany, government owns the railway but it is managed by professionals who are given the freedom they need to attract passengers. Whereas in the UK we have the worst of all worlds. The private sector takes the profit, the public sector picks up the pieces when things go wrong. The bidding process used to mean private companies would game the system by over-estimating their returns - taking high profits in the early years then walking away before making the payments to government they’d promised. When the Covid pandemic led to falling passenger numbers, the government stepped in to prop up the railway with funding. Since then, the private sector has been given management contracts so companies are paid a fixed fee and don’t take any risk. What’s the point? Rail franchising is generally recognised to have failed - the system is too fragmented and inefficient. ‘Great British Railways’ was the government’s latest attempt to sort out the problem but they seem to have given up on it. The government is now creating a second class service on our railway, making drastic cuts and planning to close nearly 1000 ticket offices. The unions are fighting back, the government is fighting the unions - and passengers are suffering with the ongoing strikes. British Rail was recorded as being 40% more efficient than eight comparable rail systems in Europe used as benchmarks in 1989. It was however underfunded. Since privatisation, the government is spending around three times more on the railway. We need BOTH public ownership AND proper funding to have a railway fit for the future. Meanwhile, railways in other countries are powering ahead, enabling people to leave cars and planes behind - the best railway in Europe is in Switzerland and it’s in public ownership. Ironically, many of the privately run franchises that still remain in our railway are run by state owned companies from other countries. 67% of the UK public want our railway in public ownership 63% of Conservative voters want our railway in public ownership
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Apr 25, 2024 7:12:04 GMT
The Hatfield rail crash was a railway accident on 17 October 2000, at Hatfield, Hertfordshire. It was caused by a metal fatigue-induced derailment, killing four people and injuring more than 70. And? - the railways are massively safer since privatisation..
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Apr 25, 2024 7:12:31 GMT
Something needs drastically doing to the Rail service in this Country. Even if it means state ownership and I think most of the British public would agree we Can't afford to Subsidise failing rail company's especially when huge payouts go to vShare holders and rail fares increase . And money going out of the Country to foreign rail company's Not thanking Brexiteers for making such a thing legally possible? Typical. Sorry Nigel your wrong with your lies ,dam lies and misinformation. EU law explicitly protects the right of member states to nationalise industries. Art. 345 TFEU states “The Treaties shall in no way prejudice the rules in Member States (MS) governing the system of property ownership.”
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Apr 25, 2024 7:13:51 GMT
The Hatfield rail crash was a railway accident on 17 October 2000, at Hatfield, Hertfordshire. It was caused by a metal fatigue-induced derailment, killing four people and injuring more than 70. And? - the railways are massively safer since privatisation.. Really prove it .
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Apr 25, 2024 7:26:43 GMT
And? - the railways are massively safer since privatisation.. Really prove it . The railways were privatised in 1997. The record is actually better than that shown in the graphic as in the decades prior to privatisation usage of the railways had been falling - since privatisation usage soared. So your individual chance of being hurt is now massively smaller than it was.
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Apr 25, 2024 7:34:09 GMT
The Hatfield rail crash was a railway accident on 17 October 2000, at Hatfield, Hertfordshire. It was caused by a metal fatigue-induced derailment, killing four people and injuring more than 70. And? - the railways are massively safer since privatisation.. Really is this the worst rail accident in Britain . Accident at Ladbroke Grove on 5th October 1999 Train Operator(s) - First Great Western, Thames Trains Primary Cause(s) - Driver error Secondary Cause(s) - Signal layout defect, inadequate training Result - Signal passed at danger, head on collision, derailment, fire No. Fatalities - 30 No. Injured - 400
|
|
|
Post by Dogburger on Apr 25, 2024 7:37:03 GMT
I think there are other industries ahead of the railways in the queue for nationalisation , stuff we actually need like water and a bit of leccy .
The railways are fine ,probably the best they have ever been ,just need to sort out the industrial action which need to go to arbitration seeing as both sides seem entrenched with their demands regarding a way forward .
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Apr 25, 2024 7:39:20 GMT
The railways were privatised in 1997. The record is actually better than that shown in the graphic as in the decades prior to privatisation usage of the railways had been falling - since privatisation usage soared. So your individual chance of being hurt is now massively smaller than it was. LOL got to go back to 1940s and the Railways was privatised I'n 1994
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Apr 25, 2024 7:41:33 GMT
I think there are other industries ahead of the railways in the queue for privatisation , stuff we actually need like water and a bit of leccy . Presume that you mean nationalisation? Agree about water and power.
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Apr 25, 2024 8:07:21 GMT
Not thanking Brexiteers for making such a thing legally possible? Typical. Sorry Nigel your wrong with your lies ,dam lies and misinformation. EU law explicitly protects the right of member states to nationalise industries. Art. 345 TFEU states “The Treaties shall in no way prejudice the rules in Member States (MS) governing the system of property ownership.” Not as simple as you think. Monopolies are illegal in the EU, TFEU101. Other countries such as France and Germany no longer have state monopoly railways. A large amount of privatisation took place in their countries. And study the fourth railways package too. I did.
|
|