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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 26, 2022 14:48:46 GMT
As a Scottish nationalist you have your own reasons for refusing to support England and the Commonwealth. Whats politics got to do with it? Ive already made the non political point that in the tribal world of football support , rival teams supporters dont tend to support each other?
I have also said both you and i can support whoever we like .In my case if my country or club team isnt playing , then i can support or choose not to support whoever i wish.
Not sure what your england and commonwealth comment means , but if you are once again implying this unspoken "rule" that i have to support the other teams from a particular geographical location , then im following that rule by supporting a fellow european team....France.
Why should my footballing support be constrained by your narrow british nationalism and English imperialism?
? Dont understand your sentence mate . I havent called you a yorkshireman , my point was rival footballing teams supporters dont tend to support each other . Scotland and england , man utd liverpool , rangers celtic etc etc all fall into that category.
Well good luck to you , but my point remains we can all support whoever we wish. We arent constrained by silly unspoken rules , and tend to follow tribal rivalry in disliking opposing rival teams.
I probably have more irish blood in my veins than half the population of ireland , but i dont suport the republic , i support scotland.
We have no obligation to support any country we dont want to , so im not supporting england. English fans can take it as they like , it wont make a jot of a difference to me or any one else.
Chill Tom. I'm not trying to score political points I'm just making conversation. Of course you can support who ever you choose to just as you can choose your sexual partner or breakfast cereal (porridge I presume, for both). I was just offering my opinion. YMMV. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 14:57:22 GMT
Whats politics got to do with it? Ive already made the non political point that in the tribal world of football support , rival teams supporters dont tend to support each other?
I have also said both you and i can support whoever we like .In my case if my country or club team isnt playing , then i can support or choose not to support whoever i wish.
Not sure what your england and commonwealth comment means , but if you are once again implying this unspoken "rule" that i have to support the other teams from a particular geographical location , then im following that rule by supporting a fellow european team....France.
Why should my footballing support be constrained by your narrow british nationalism and English imperialism?
? Dont understand your sentence mate . I havent called you a yorkshireman , my point was rival footballing teams supporters dont tend to support each other . Scotland and england , man utd liverpool , rangers celtic etc etc all fall into that category.
Well good luck to you , but my point remains we can all support whoever we wish. We arent constrained by silly unspoken rules , and tend to follow tribal rivalry in disliking opposing rival teams.
I probably have more irish blood in my veins than half the population of ireland , but i dont suport the republic , i support scotland.
We have no obligation to support any country we dont want to , so im not supporting england. English fans can take it as they like , it wont make a jot of a difference to me or any one else.
Chill Tom. I'm not trying to score political points I'm just making conversation. Of course you can support who ever you choose to just as you can choose your sexual partner or breakfast cereal (porridge I presume, for both). I was just offering my opinion. YMMV. Apologies if i offended monte , but im perfectly calm . Just trying to analyse this weirdly obsessive behaviour we northern colonists are subjected to at world cups by certain english people telling us we have to give our loyalty to their country .
As i pointed out , it doesnt make sense in footballing terms , nor geographical terms , and can only be explained in narrow british nationalism terms.
Still , its enjoyable having a coherent discussion with you. When i talk to vinny , i cant shake the feeling im speaking to a resident of a lunatic asylum who isnt in touch with the real world as he rocks back and forth screaming at me , never mind taking on board what im saying.
Alba gu brath!
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 26, 2022 15:05:38 GMT
Chill Tom. I'm not trying to score political points I'm just making conversation. Of course you can support who ever you choose to just as you can choose your sexual partner or breakfast cereal (porridge I presume, for both). I was just offering my opinion. YMMV. Apologies if i offended monte , but im perfectly calm . Just trying to analyse this weirdly obsessive behaviour we northern colonists are subjected to at world cups by certain english people telling us we have to give our loyalty to their country .
As i pointed out , it doesnt make sense in footballing terms , nor geographical terms , and can only be explained in narrow british nationalism terms.
Still , its enjoyable having a coherent discussion with you. When i talk to vinny , i cant shake the feeling im speaking to a resident of a lunatic asylum who isnt in touch with the real world as he rocks back and forth screaming at me , never mind taking on board what im saying.
Alba gu brath!
I'm just demonstrating that patriotism is not the sole reserve of the UKIPs and populists like Farage. I've apparently confused you as well as the gammons.  Semper Eadem |
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Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 15:35:38 GMT
Apologies if i offended monte , but im perfectly calm . Just trying to analyse this weirdly obsessive behaviour we northern colonists are subjected to at world cups by certain english people telling us we have to give our loyalty to their country .
As i pointed out , it doesnt make sense in footballing terms , nor geographical terms , and can only be explained in narrow british nationalism terms.
Still , its enjoyable having a coherent discussion with you. When i talk to vinny , i cant shake the feeling im speaking to a resident of a lunatic asylum who isnt in touch with the real world as he rocks back and forth screaming at me , never mind taking on board what im saying.
Alba gu brath!
I'm just demonstrating that patriotism is not the sole reserve of the UKIPs and populists like Farage. I've apparently confused you as well as the gammons. You seem to be redefining the meaning of the word patriotism . How can i or anyone else be patriotic about someone elses country?
The welsh are at the world cup , i dont see them demanding scotland supports them or crying if we wont hold their hands in some weirdly obsessive show of british unity.
Certain english people in sporting occassions seem to be rather fragile about their national identity , which is something i struggle to understand.
I dont need to demand support for scotland , or feel the need for anyone to hold my hand in sporting contests. In fact , i couldnt really give a shit who does or doesnt support scotland.
My scottish identity doesnt need to be shouted about from rooftops , or demand unswerving obedience to from people in other nations. Merely whispered about in confidence.
If certain folk in England have such a weak national identity that it feels threatened by lack of support from the jocks taffs or paddies , then may i respectfully suggest that their national identity is built on quicksand and extremely weak.
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 26, 2022 15:54:07 GMT
I'm just demonstrating that patriotism is not the sole reserve of the UKIPs and populists like Farage. I've apparently confused you as well as the gammons. You seem to be redefining the meaning of the word patriotism . How can i or anyone else be patriotic about someone elses country?
The welsh are at the world cup , i dont see them demanding scotland supports them or crying if we wont hold their hands in some weirdly obsessive show of british unity.
Certain english people in sporting occassions seem to be rather fragile about their national identity , which is something i struggle to understand.
I dont need to demand support for scotland , or feel the need for anyone to hold my hand in sporting contests. In fact , i couldnt really give a shit who does or doesnt support scotland.
My scottish identity doesnt need to be shouted about from rooftops , or demand unswerving obedience to from people in other nations. Merely whispered about in confidence.
If certain folk in England have such a weak national identity that it feels threatened by lack of support from the jocks taffs or paddies , then may i respectfully suggest that their national identity is built on quicksand and extremely weak.
There seem to be precious few real fans of football here anyway. Maybe just 3 or 4 of us actually discussing the games. Most prefering to use the WC to virtue signal their anti-woke credentials or tacitly support other nations' right to discriminate against gays, women or immigrants. I'm actually getting better conversations about the football and the issues on the American forum I am a member of. I use pride in the Commonwealth (or Empire as I tongue in cheek call it) to justify my patriotism in supporting nations such as Australia or Canada. I supported Scotland when they qualified in the past and England didn't. Both my father and I lifting the roof when Archie Gemmill scored that wonder goal against Holland back in '78. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 26, 2022 16:02:39 GMT
Then there was that goal against Brazil in '82.
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Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 16:22:09 GMT
You seem to be redefining the meaning of the word patriotism . How can i or anyone else be patriotic about someone elses country?
The welsh are at the world cup , i dont see them demanding scotland supports them or crying if we wont hold their hands in some weirdly obsessive show of british unity.
Certain english people in sporting occassions seem to be rather fragile about their national identity , which is something i struggle to understand.
I dont need to demand support for scotland , or feel the need for anyone to hold my hand in sporting contests. In fact , i couldnt really give a shit who does or doesnt support scotland.
My scottish identity doesnt need to be shouted about from rooftops , or demand unswerving obedience to from people in other nations. Merely whispered about in confidence.
If certain folk in England have such a weak national identity that it feels threatened by lack of support from the jocks taffs or paddies , then may i respectfully suggest that their national identity is built on quicksand and extremely weak.
There seem to be precious few real fans of football here anyway. Maybe just 3 or 4 of us actually discussing the games. Most prefering to use the WC to virtue signal their anti-woke credentials or tacitly support other nations' right to discriminate against gays, women or immigrants. totally agree. Ive said as much to vinny on this thread earlier.
Not sure what age you are monte , but my earliest recollection of a world cup was mexico 86 . I remember me and my brother watching the England Argentina game . When maradonna ran through the england team and scored his wonder goal we were jumping about mental with happiness. Maradonna became an eternal hero in scottish footballing folklore .
As i said earlier , i just find the deep seated national identity insecurites in certain english folk unfathomable. I suppose the fact there isnt a british footballing league never mind national team , along with the republic leaving the uk 100 years ago , the current rise in political nationalism , has some folk completely unnerved.
Ive never fully supported anyone but scotland , but admired many great teams past and present , like the aforementioned argentina , the great german and italian teams etc.
I suppose your view is shaped by british nationalism , and former british imperialism and the old empire ( said without offence meant , merely observing) .
You have to move though with the times .
You mention Australia , another of sports great rivals with england where there is no love lost.
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 26, 2022 16:35:20 GMT
I'm 57.
I remember that Argentina game differently of course.
It didn't make Maradona a hero for me instead marking him out as an enemy for life, never to be forgiven or forgotten.
I can accept losing to a better team and even appreciate the skill of an opposition player but cheating just isn't cricket dear boy.
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Post by Vinny on Nov 26, 2022 16:38:15 GMT
The UK is a country a bit of a fucked up one with a shit voting system but a country nontheless. If you were to travel about a bit more you'd understand it better. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 16:44:09 GMT
The UK is a country a bit of a fucked up one with a shit voting system but a country nontheless. If you were to travel about a bit more you'd understand it better. Rather than argue reality with you vinny , as you gently rock yourself back and forth screaming at people , might i respectfully point out we are talking the football world cup where the uk doesnt exist.
Its a pity , as monte and myself have already pointed out , that you have decided to use our world cup as a stage to flaunt your virtue signalling credentials at.
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 26, 2022 16:44:38 GMT
Same with Ronaldo and Portugal.
That wink sealed it.
On the naughty list for life without parole.
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Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 16:47:39 GMT
I'm 57. I remember that Argentina game differently of course. It didn't make Maradona a hero for me instead marking him out as an enemy for life, never to be forgiven or forgotten. I can accept losing to a better team and even appreciate the skill of an opposition player but cheating just isn't cricket dear boy. Argentina were by far the better team in that game , and while his hand of god was funny , his other goal that i posted was the greatest footballing goal i have ever witnessed.
The argies had a point to prove in that game especially after the las malvinas war , and i have never witnessed any english footballer past or present that was fit to lace maradonnas boots.
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Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 16:49:54 GMT
Same with Ronaldo and Portugal. That wink sealed it. On the naughty list for life without parole. come now monte , if we were to list all the faults and cheats of world football , we could plaster the cheats of the english game all over this thread for weeks to come.
Ronaldo , while no the player maradonna was , once more is another great footballer , and icon of the game.
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Post by Vinny on Nov 26, 2022 16:51:10 GMT
The UK is a country a bit of a fucked up one with a shit voting system but a country nontheless. If you were to travel about a bit more you'd understand it better. Rather than argue reality with you vinny , as you gently rock yourself back and forth screaming at people , might i respectfully point out we are talking the football world cup where the uk doesnt exist.
Its a pity , as monte and myself have already pointed out , that you have decided to use our world cup as a stage to flaunt your virtue signalling credentials at.
This is a politics forum for the airing of opinions and ideas. FIFA's former management and the Qatari government are criminal. This world cup, is criminal. Ergo, I will not watch either of our UK teams who are in it, I don't wish ill on England or Wales. Ordinarily I back Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland, whoever from our United Kingdom (a sovereign country which has non sovereign constituent countries inside it). A sovereign country with non sovereign countries inside it is still a country. England is a member state. Scotland is a member state. The UK is a sovereign state and a country. Now, if you want to watch the world cup, if you want to support any team in it, that is your right. BUT and this has been annoying me since I first learned how corrupt FIFA is back in the 2000's, I like football, I do not like FIFA. And so, I am lending my support to the teams not competing. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 16:57:07 GMT
Rather than argue reality with you vinny , as you gently rock yourself back and forth screaming at people , might i respectfully point out we are talking the football world cup where the uk doesnt exist.
Its a pity , as monte and myself have already pointed out , that you have decided to use our world cup as a stage to flaunt your virtue signalling credentials at.
This is a politics forum for the airing of opinions and ideas. It is. It isnt a platform though for reality deniers .
im enjoying it.
Im sure FIFA and Qatar are crushed by that news vinny. At least you are doing your bit by not switching the telly on .
See my earlier posts on supporting whoever you wish. It doesnt detract from the reality the uk doesnt exist in world football .
I suppose it gives you a break for a few weeks from the virtue signalling on ukraine.
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My father always supported the team closest to where we lived at the time and had the same views as me on international competition but also including Eire since he was half Irish himself. As a quarter Irish myself I have a fondness for them too
My father always supported the team closest to where we lived at the time and had the same views as me on international competition but also including Eire since he was half Irish himself. As a quarter Irish myself I have a fondness for them too
