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Post by zanygame on Oct 18, 2022 20:08:25 GMT
Just like last time.  Yep, it would be the biggest clusterfuck since the Boer War. Given the remain rhetoric last time: Everyone who voted remain last time would be a hypocrite if they vote Join this time since they wouldn't know what they are voting for/ Everyone who voted leave last time but join this time would be an idiot because they wouldn't know what they have voted for twice - failing to learn from their alleged mistake. I can hear it now. The government insisting they can't say anything because there is no plan for join...... Well I wouldn't do it like last time. I would negotiate the terms of re-joining and only then put the deal to the public. Kinda think if we'd have done that last time we might have never left. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 18, 2022 20:19:44 GMT
Those that lose a vote are always happy to have another it gives them a second chance to get all their ducks in row by changing tack, concentrating on where they think they lost the people. There is also the fact that the Remain campaign has been ongoing since 2016 irrespective of cost and has on side many interested parties whose best interests lie in Europe and they are still fighting the good fight. If it had happened as in 75 where everyone said its a fair cop, the vote has been cast let's get on with membership and buckle down there would be no problem. Fat chance the fight has continued apace with ever more strident and dire warnings and one feels that some are actually ensuring that Brexit will not work so that the UK can rejoin. None of this matters if you believe you still you have the mandate. We could have a dozen referendums to no avail. The mandate was obtained, what you want to do is remeasure the mandate as and when it suits you which is not the way anything works. The idea is to obtain the mandate in the first instance as you did in 75 where we spent the next 40 years wondering how on earth what we voted for in 1975 became what we were immersed in in 2016. As I have said the campaign for Remain has been ongoing for the last six years with an untold amount of money spent to convince us that Brexit was an error. What grates is much of that money being used is supplied by Brexit supporters through their taxes or their TV licences or through money given to charity. |
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Post by colbops on Oct 18, 2022 20:23:51 GMT
Yep, it would be the biggest clusterfuck since the Boer War. Given the remain rhetoric last time: Everyone who voted remain last time would be a hypocrite if they vote Join this time since they wouldn't know what they are voting for/ Everyone who voted leave last time but join this time would be an idiot because they wouldn't know what they have voted for twice - failing to learn from their alleged mistake. I can hear it now. The government insisting they can't say anything because there is no plan for join...... 1.) Well I wouldn't do it like last time. I would negotiate the terms of re-joining and only then put the deal to the public. 2.) Kinda think if we'd have done that last time we might have never left. 1.) Well yes, that would be the only way to approach it as I suggested the other day 2.) That wasn't an option, the EU were not prepared to discuss terms until after the UK gave notice - That was the real attempt at project fear. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 18, 2022 20:36:12 GMT
None of this matters if you believe you still you have the mandate. We could have a dozen referendums to no avail. The mandate was obtained, what you want to do is remeasure the mandate as and when it suits you which is not the way anything works. The idea is to obtain the mandate in the first instance as you did in 75 where we spent the next 40 years wondering how on earth what we voted for in 1975 became what we were immersed in in 2016. As I have said the campaign for Remain has been ongoing for the last six years with an untold amount of money spent to convince us that Brexit was an error. What grates is much of that money being used is supplied by Brexit supporters through their taxes or their TV licences or through money given to charity. The mandate is what the people want, nothing ever more than that. You can live in 1975 if you wish, but now is 2022. |
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Post by Toreador on Oct 18, 2022 20:40:48 GMT
Those that lose a vote are always happy to have another it gives them a second chance to get all their ducks in row by changing tack, concentrating on where they think they lost the people. There is also the fact that the Remain campaign has been ongoing since 2016 irrespective of cost and has on side many interested parties whose best interests lie in Europe and they are still fighting the good fight. If it had happened as in 75 where everyone said its a fair cop, the vote has been cast let's get on with membership and buckle down there would be no problem. Fat chance the fight has continued apace with ever more strident and dire warnings and one feels that some are actually ensuring that Brexit will not work so that the UK can rejoin. None of this matters if you believe you still you have the mandate. We could have a dozen referendums to no avail. The mandate was made 23 June 2016, that's how referenda work. I'm sure that if we moved back into the EU and had problems as bad as they are now and polling were seriously anti-EU, those one time remainers would be hankering to get out. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 18, 2022 20:44:14 GMT
The mandate was obtained, what you want to do is remeasure the mandate as and when it suits you which is not the way anything works. The idea is to obtain the mandate in the first instance as you did in 75 where we spent the next 40 years wondering how on earth what we voted for in 1975 became what we were immersed in in 2016. As I have said the campaign for Remain has been ongoing for the last six years with an untold amount of money spent to convince us that Brexit was an error. What grates is much of that money being used is supplied by Brexit supporters through their taxes or their TV licences or through money given to charity. The mandate is what the people want, nothing ever more than that. You can live in 1975 if you wish, but now is 2022. The mandate is what the people vote for as that is the only real measure of what they want. We can safely say the people wanted to leave the EU and the people wanted a Tory government in 2019 to get Brexit done. Why do you think the people want to rejoin or have regulatory alignment? Is it becaseu those are the questions and the thoughts being presented as a means to end our trials and tribulations when most in the EU have the same problems and the US has interest rates at eyewatering levels above ours. 1975 was of course an example of what happened when we had a referendum that Remainers won. |
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Post by Toreador on Oct 18, 2022 20:44:19 GMT
Yep, it would be the biggest clusterfuck since the Boer War. Given the remain rhetoric last time: Everyone who voted remain last time would be a hypocrite if they vote Join this time since they wouldn't know what they are voting for/ Everyone who voted leave last time but join this time would be an idiot because they wouldn't know what they have voted for twice - failing to learn from their alleged mistake. I can hear it now. The government insisting they can't say anything because there is no plan for join...... Well I wouldn't do it like last time. I would negotiate the terms of re-joining and only then put the deal to the public. Kinda think if we'd have done that last time we might have never left. Cameron negotiated terms for remaining, the rest is history. Do you have any idea what would be the problems of rejoining? |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 18, 2022 20:44:41 GMT
None of this matters if you believe you still you have the mandate. We could have a dozen referendums to no avail. The mandate was made 23 June 2016, that's how referenda work. I'm sure that if we moved back into the EU and had problems as bad as they are now and polling were seriously anti-EU, those one time remainers would be hankering to get out. Are you another of those who believes in the single vote democracy? You get that one vote and then never again? It worked well for Saddam and Hitler. |
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Post by Toreador on Oct 18, 2022 20:49:38 GMT
The mandate was made 23 June 2016, that's how referenda work. I'm sure that if we moved back into the EU and had problems as bad as they are now and polling were seriously anti-EU, those one time remainers would be hankering to get out. Are you another of those who believes in the single vote democracy? You get that one vote and then never again? It worked well for Saddam and Hitler. Did you vote in the referendum and did you think if you'd won, you would have been open to continuing calls for a second referendum? |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 18, 2022 21:22:57 GMT
The mandate was made 23 June 2016, that's how referenda work. I'm sure that if we moved back into the EU and had problems as bad as they are now and polling were seriously anti-EU, those one time remainers would be hankering to get out. Are you another of those who believes in the single vote democracy? You get that one vote and then never again? It worked well for Saddam and Hitler. The people had the chance of another vote in 2019 (it was a Labour manifesto commitment) - they chose to support the other side. Perhaps we should force people to vote for what you want? |
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Post by Steve on Oct 18, 2022 21:40:08 GMT
I know because I'm happy to have another vote and you're not. Those that lose a vote are always happy to have another it gives them a second chance to get all their ducks in row by changing tack, concentrating on where they think they lost the people. There is also the fact that the Remain campaign has been ongoing since 2016 irrespective of cost and has on side many interested parties whose best interests lie in Europe and they are still fighting the good fight. If it had happened as in 75 where everyone said its a fair cop, the vote has been cast let's get on with membership and buckle down there would be no problem. Fat chance the fight has continued apace with ever more strident and dire warnings and one feels that some are actually ensuring that Brexit will not work so that the UK can rejoin. When you have a blatantly corrupted vote there should always be a rerun. You got your Brexit through corrupted democracy, dark dealing by the Electoral Commission and legal loopholes. And it's still a mess |
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Post by jonksy on Oct 18, 2022 22:40:13 GMT
Those that lose a vote are always happy to have another it gives them a second chance to get all their ducks in row by changing tack, concentrating on where they think they lost the people. There is also the fact that the Remain campaign has been ongoing since 2016 irrespective of cost and has on side many interested parties whose best interests lie in Europe and they are still fighting the good fight. If it had happened as in 75 where everyone said its a fair cop, the vote has been cast let's get on with membership and buckle down there would be no problem. Fat chance the fight has continued apace with ever more strident and dire warnings and one feels that some are actually ensuring that Brexit will not work so that the UK can rejoin. When you have a blatantly corrupted vote there should always be a rerun. You got your Brexit through corrupted democracy, dark dealing by the Electoral Commission and legal loopholes. And it's still a mess Same old remainer bullshit we have all heard a thousand times before. Your side lost so get over it. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 19, 2022 4:36:42 GMT
Are you another of those who believes in the single vote democracy? You get that one vote and then never again? It worked well for Saddam and Hitler. Did you vote in the referendum and did you think if you'd won, you would have been open to continuing calls for a second referendum? Yes I voted. And yes I would be open to continuing calls, that's democracy, nothing is ever set in stone. Had we have remained in the EU and then things happened that shifted public opinion to reconsider leaving then I would acknowledge the polls and support a new referendum. Particularly if that change in public opinion polls remained steady against remaining for several years. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 19, 2022 4:38:32 GMT
Are you another of those who believes in the single vote democracy? You get that one vote and then never again? It worked well for Saddam and Hitler. The people had the chance of another vote in 2019 (it was a Labour manifesto commitment) - they chose to support the other side. Perhaps we should force people to vote for what you want? You keep peddling that lie, but we all know the real choice in 2019 was Tory or Corbyn Labour. |
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Post by Toreador on Oct 19, 2022 5:03:34 GMT
Did you vote in the referendum and did you think if you'd won, you would have been open to continuing calls for a second referendum? Yes I voted. And yes I would be open to continuing calls, that's democracy, nothing is ever set in stone. Had we have remained in the EU and then things happened that shifted public opinion to reconsider leaving then I would acknowledge the polls and support a new referendum. Particularly if that change in public opinion polls remained steady against remaining for several years. It would be a sad day when opinion polls were considered as democracy, look at it from the point of elections. Do you think there should be another election if the turnout fell below a certain percentage and should there be another election when the winning candidate is elected by just a few votes or what should happen where a candidate was selected with well less than 20% of the eligible vote? In either case, where would you set the bar? |
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