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Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2022 12:52:19 GMT
'having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those involving the treatment of ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities:' Which not an objective definition. To illustrate - it is perfectly possible to count yourself as having 'active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices', but to also count yourself as anti-woke. There is no officially agreed meaning in terms of disposition - it's a bit like the word 'nice' Your claims that the term is hijacked are spurious - the word simply doesn't officially mean anything objective |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 12:52:39 GMT
The evidence suggests very much that a significant number of leavers are no longer sure about their position oh FFS. Then campaign to rejoin and you will have no great difficulty winning this time?
What astounds me is the fact you hint there are a great many who have changed position , yet keir starmer and labour arent taking advantage of it........?
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 12:55:08 GMT
The evidence suggests very much that a significant number of leavers are no longer sure about their position oh FFS. Then campaign to rejoin and you will have no great difficulty winning this time?
What astounds me is the fact you hint there are a great many who have changed position , yet keir starmer and labour arent taking advantage of it........?
Indeed. Steve seems to be trying to support his own( and possibly some others ) wishful thinking . |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 3, 2022 12:55:29 GMT
The biggest reform our country needs is a proportional voting system to make it possible for other parties to get a foot in the door in the Commons.
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 13:00:42 GMT
oh FFS. Then campaign to rejoin and you will have no great difficulty winning this time?
What astounds me is the fact you hint there are a great many who have changed position , yet keir starmer and labour arent taking advantage of it........?
Indeed. Steve seems to be trying to support his own( and possibly some others ) wishful thinking . unfortunately that is the nature of forums. Often reality and fantasy collide , hence the resulting hysterics.
Pro europeans who havent won a single vote in 7 years still telling us they are in the majority and get to call the shots really is fantasy of the highest order.
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 14:03:17 GMT
The evidence suggests very much that a significant number of leavers are no longer sure about their position Their position? The position that we are no longer members of the EU isn’t really disputable. No silly, that it was a good idea |
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 14:05:22 GMT
The evidence suggests very much that a significant number of leavers are no longer sure about their position oh FFS. Then campaign to rejoin and you will have no great difficulty winning this time?
What astounds me is the fact you hint there are a great many who have changed position , yet keir starmer and labour arent taking advantage of it........?
Again you do like imagined extrapolations of what I've said don't you. How many times do I have to post that there is a valid democratic mandate for Brexit, that we shouldn't have a further referendum any time soon and that I don't think one will happen even in the longer term; before it gets through? |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 14:07:25 GMT
Indeed. Steve seems to be trying to support his own( and possibly some others ) wishful thinking . unfortunately that is the nature of forums. Often reality and fantasy collide , hence the resulting hysterics.
Pro europeans who havent won a single vote in 7 years still telling us they are in the majority and get to call the shots really is fantasy of the highest order.
The only hysterics available appear to be from the inability of Brexit supporters to take valid criticism. In fully understanding the 2016 referendum, any future referendum will or should benefit from it. I would say to those who fully support the 2016 outcome, take credit where it is deserved, and take criticism where it is deserved. IMO there will be another referendum within the next two generations. That's because I suspect that the EU will have the advantage in the long run. One thing that might avoid such is if the UK hits another major breakthrough like the 1760 / 1840 Industrial Revolution. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 14:08:07 GMT
oh FFS. Then campaign to rejoin and you will have no great difficulty winning this time?
What astounds me is the fact you hint there are a great many who have changed position , yet keir starmer and labour arent taking advantage of it........?
Again you do like imagined extrapolations of what I've said don't you. How many times do I have to post that there is a valid democratic mandate for Brexit, that we shouldn't have a further referendum any time soon and that I don't think one will happen even in the longer term; before it gets through? Ok.
What i do agree with is there wont be anothr brexit ref so soon after westmisnter getting its fingers burned the last time . Certainly keirstarmer and labour are famously anti referendums ,unless of course ,they can pre determine the result.
Thats why i keep saying if labour get in they will take the uk back into the eu by stealth , as they are too cowardly to face the electorate on their pro european principles. This of course i think will be a disaster.
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 14:10:39 GMT
Indeed. Steve seems to be trying to support his own( and possibly some others ) wishful thinking . unfortunately that is the nature of forums. Often reality and fantasy collide , hence the resulting hysterics.
Pro europeans who havent won a single vote in 7 years still telling us they are in the majority and get to call the shots really is fantasy of the highest order.
Take a look back to where the fun and games started and how the leavers rapidly went to using jibes Now if you expect me to be some wallflower putting up with shite and jibes for your convenience think again. As and when I want I'll point them out for what they are. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 14:12:22 GMT
Oh yes the term has been hijacked by losers of all extremes but it's really not too much to expect a serious political party to use it correctly and Reform Uk's failure to do so just shows they are a bunch of reactionary idiots There is no official meaning for the term 'woke'. Depending on your political position, it can earther mean 'agrees with me' or 'is mentally ill in a particular way' A similar ambiguity exists around the exact meaning of 'right wing' - it's just the way politics is and way it must be. There is no ambiguity about whether Right-Wing politics exist or not. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 14:15:33 GMT
unfortunately that is the nature of forums. Often reality and fantasy collide , hence the resulting hysterics.
Pro europeans who havent won a single vote in 7 years still telling us they are in the majority and get to call the shots really is fantasy of the highest order.
Take a look back to where the fun and games started and how the leavers rapidly went to using jibes Now if you expect me to be some wallflower putting up with shite and jibes for your convenience think again. As and when I want I'll point them out for what they are. No im enjoying the debate , and love all the jibes.
The anti democratic stuff ,well thats another level. even i draw a line under that.....
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 14:16:17 GMT
Again you do like imagined extrapolations of what I've said don't you. How many times do I have to post that there is a valid democratic mandate for Brexit, that we shouldn't have a further referendum any time soon and that I don't think one will happen even in the longer term; before it gets through? Ok.
What i do agree with is there wont be anothr brexit ref so soon after westmisnter getting its fingers burned the last time . Certainly keirstarmer and labour are famously anti referendums ,unless of course ,they can pre determine the result.
Thats why i keep saying if labour get in they will take the uk back into the eu by stealth , as they are too cowardly to face the electorate on their pro european principles. This of course i think will be a disaster.
IF Labour get in in 2024 then IF by 2027 it is clear that we are performing badly compared to convergent EU countries and IF at same time it is clear the EU might let us back in on the offered 2016 basis then MAYBE they'd call a 2028 election with a commitment to think again. That's three big IFs and one MAYBE or in other words a very small chance there'd be a further referendum before 2030 and certainly not by stealth. The smart people in Labour know full well what I said before. There may be a majority that thinks it was wrong to leave but the willingness of 'remainers' to vote solely on that belief is a lot less than the passion of many 'leavers' to vote on that issue alone. real politik |
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 14:18:39 GMT
'having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those involving the treatment of ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities:' Which not an objective definition. To illustrate - it is perfectly possible to count yourself as having 'active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices', but to also count yourself as anti-woke. There is no officially agreed meaning in terms of disposition - it's a bit like the word 'nice' Your claims that the term is hijacked are spurious - the word simply doesn't officially mean anything objectiveThen to you the Reform Party is  for making an imprecise term a key policy. Well at least we agree so many of those swivel eyeds are |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 14:19:39 GMT
Different perceptions are quite normal, but dumping Northern Ireland is not just a case of 'I want to dump it'. I personally would like to unification of Ireland, but just like Brexit the are hurdles to be overcome. Personal opinions come second. so in short , you insinuate you want northern ireland to stop brexit or at least hamper it , and further down the line you are going to give it away or support reunification anyway?
Stroppy bad loser much?
That is complete gibberish hashed up in your imagination |
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