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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 12:08:01 GMT
I didnt say it did . Democracy won in the end thankfully , but between 2016 and 2019 , it was a close thing between the actions of the anti democratic remainers.
Thank god the majority of people are on the side of democracy , and only a few unable to accept it when they lose.
I didn't say you did. Brexit individuals were in control of the country, they were never going to lose. There was not one moment when I thought the result would be overturned. And that was despite the fact that I very quickly after the referendum recognised that the Irish issue might be the Achilles Heel for Brexit. I disagree. Clearly i thought democracy was going to be overturned , as did a majority of others hence the resouding victory for the pro democrats in GE 2019.
What irish achillies heel are we talking about? Apart from some hardcore britnats , the vast majority dont give a fack about northern ireland from what i see and polls i have read.
Because by an even bigger margin (59-41), the people of England are also willing – on those numbers one might go so far as to say “eager” – to dump Northern Ireland if it gets them out of the European Union.
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 12:12:00 GMT
Remember something like 1/3 of voters believed that 'we send £350M to the EU every week' and still believed it over a year after the referendum. They likely still beleive that Turkey joined the EU before Christmas 2016 as well. Yeah, yeah. If I could be bothered I might dig up some claims that Brexit would result in catastrophes or emergency budgets that never emerged but luckily enough I can’t . The campaigns were littered with half truths and lies from both sides. The difference is that the ex remainers have memorised and inflated the leave ones. That’s why they are so boring and one dimensional. yes you can find false claims from Vote Leave about what Remain said And we actually had an emergency budget, just the one Carney imposed on Osborne and not the other way round. He tore up the commitment to pay down dent and printed money big time which ensured that fall in the £ and inflation but did avoid the catastrophe. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 12:15:45 GMT
Yeah, yeah. If I could be bothered I might dig up some claims that Brexit would result in catastrophes or emergency budgets that never emerged but luckily enough I can’t . The campaigns were littered with half truths and lies from both sides. The difference is that the ex remainers have memorised and inflated the leave ones. That’s why they are so boring and one dimensional. yes you can find false claims from Vote Leave about what Remain said And we actually had an emergency budget, just the one Carney imposed on Osborne and not the other way round. He tore up the commitment to pay down dent and printed money big time which ensured that fall in the £ and inflation but did avoid the catastrophe. Maybe the ex remainers will stop looking backwards and try to find ways of making the present situation work the best way it can . Its ironic that the ex remainers are the ones looking backwards . |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 12:16:20 GMT
Yeah, yeah. If I could be bothered I might dig up some claims that Brexit would result in catastrophes or emergency budgets that never emerged but luckily enough I can’t . The campaigns were littered with half truths and lies from both sides. The difference is that the ex remainers have memorised and inflated the leave ones. That’s why they are so boring and one dimensional. yes you can find false claims from Vote Leave about what Remain said And we actually had an emergency budget, just the one Carney imposed on Osborne and not the other way round. He tore up the commitment to pay down dent and printed money big time which ensured that fall in the £ and inflation but did avoid the catastrophe. There has been allegations of false claims and politicians lying to win votes at every general election and referendum in the yookay in my lifetime. I dont recall any being overturned before they were democratically enacted.
It seems the anglo remainers think they are a special case above the democratic norms.
Like i said steve , time to stop going on about losing in the 2016 ref , accept what happend , and campaign now for rejoining. Starmer is getting the campaign off to a bad start by trying to be duplicitous about making brexit work.
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Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2022 12:18:49 GMT
Oh yes the term has been hijacked by losers of all extremes but it's really not too much to expect a serious political party to use it correctly and Reform Uk's failure to do so just shows they are a bunch of reactionary idiots There is no official meaning for the term 'woke'. Depending on your political position, it can earther mean 'agrees with me' or 'is mentally ill in a particular way' A similar ambiguity exists around the exact meaning of 'right wing' - it's just the way politics is and way it must be. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 12:19:34 GMT
There was no lie bigger lie than the oft repeated insinuation that all we have to do is to leave, after that it's all blue skies and sunshine. That's how misleadingly arrogant those who wanted Brexit were. It was somewhere near 2018 when suddenly we were introduced to another lie by those who voted for Brexit, "no one said it would be easy". Ha. you can try and spend the rest of eternity thinking up new excuses and running historical revision to attempt to justify overturning democracy , it does you no favours.
The rest of us know what happened.
Leave won fair and square.
Best to move on and try and champion rejoin , rather then crying over spilled milk . All you do is entrench division , and the sense of anti democracy and unwillingess to accept losing that we see in some remainers.
My post was sent to a particular poster for a particular reason. Facts are not excuses. Please do not tell / insinuate lies about me, I have never attempted to overturn democracy, I have never been "anti-democratic" etc. If those who voted for Brexit have some difficulty in facing criticism that only suggests that there is some truth in the criticism. Claiming that "Leave won fair and square" is an unnecessary exaggeration. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 12:26:09 GMT
I didn't say you did. Brexit individuals were in control of the country, they were never going to lose. There was not one moment when I thought the result would be overturned. And that was despite the fact that I very quickly after the referendum recognised that the Irish issue might be the Achilles Heel for Brexit. I disagree. Clearly i thought democracy was going to be overturned , as did a majority of others hence the resouding victory for the pro democrats in GE 2019.
What irish achillies heel are we talking about? Apart from some hardcore britnats , the vast majority dont give a fack about northern ireland from what i see and polls i have read.
Because by an even bigger margin (59-41), the people of England are also willing – on those numbers one might go so far as to say “eager” – to dump Northern Ireland if it gets them out of the European Union.
Different perceptions are quite normal, but dumping Northern Ireland is not just a case of 'I want to dump it'. I personally would like to unification of Ireland, but just like Brexit the are hurdles to be overcome. Personal opinions come second. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 12:26:38 GMT
you can try and spend the rest of eternity thinking up new excuses and running historical revision to attempt to justify overturning democracy , it does you no favours.
The rest of us know what happened.
Leave won fair and square.
Best to move on and try and champion rejoin , rather then crying over spilled milk . All you do is entrench division , and the sense of anti democracy and unwillingess to accept losing that we see in some remainers.
My post was sent to a particular poster for a particular reason. Facts are not excuses. Where did i say facts are excuses? The number one fact im asking you to come to terms with is leave won the 2016 referendum.
To be specific , i am generalising about many remainers and thier representatives during the 16-19 period , and of course those still bleating about losing 3 years on from GE2019 . If you support those groups , if the cap fits......
I voted remain.
The difficulty as expressed is that the adults in the room found it difficult to accept the tantrums of the few children who coudnt accept democracy.
By the accepted rules of democracy as has been practiced in the yookay during my lifetime leave won fair and square.
Again you appear to think you are above those rules , and a special case .
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 12:28:17 GMT
yes you can find false claims from Vote Leave about what Remain said And we actually had an emergency budget, just the one Carney imposed on Osborne and not the other way round. He tore up the commitment to pay down dent and printed money big time which ensured that fall in the £ and inflation but did avoid the catastrophe. Maybe the ex remainers will stop looking backwards and try to find ways of making the present situation work the best way it can . Its ironic that the ex remainers are the ones looking backwards . If you care to look trying to make the situation work best is exactly what I advocate But what we see over and over is insecure leavers - Accusing remainers of being undemocratic even treason
- Making false assertions of how bad the EU was and is aka 'Project Look What We'll Pretend We Saved you From'
- Making at best sus statements about how well Brexit is going economically
- And then reacting with all sorts of shite when those ^ are challenged
Don't want shite challenged don't post shite in the first place
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 12:29:52 GMT
I disagree. Clearly i thought democracy was going to be overturned , as did a majority of others hence the resouding victory for the pro democrats in GE 2019.
What irish achillies heel are we talking about? Apart from some hardcore britnats , the vast majority dont give a fack about northern ireland from what i see and polls i have read.
Because by an even bigger margin (59-41), the people of England are also willing – on those numbers one might go so far as to say “eager” – to dump Northern Ireland if it gets them out of the European Union.
Different perceptions are quite normal, but dumping Northern Ireland is not just a case of 'I want to dump it'. I personally would like to unification of Ireland, but just like Brexit the are hurdles to be overcome. Personal opinions come second. so in short , you insinuate you want northern ireland to stop brexit or at least hamper it , and further down the line you are going to give it away or support reunification anyway?
Stroppy bad loser much?
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 12:40:44 GMT
Oh yes the term has been hijacked by losers of all extremes but it's really not too much to expect a serious political party to use it correctly and Reform Uk's failure to do so just shows they are a bunch of reactionary idiots There is no official meaning for the term 'woke'. Depending on your political position, it can earther mean 'agrees with me' or 'is mentally ill in a particular way' A similar ambiguity exists around the exact meaning of 'right wing' - it's just the way politics is and way it must be. I'll go with the dictionary, you may not realise dictionaries give very good definitions of what words mean. Can't get the Oxford one online anymore but they now refer you to this one www.dictionary.com/browse/woke 'having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those involving the treatment of ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities:'Of course that either like or see nothing wrong in those injustices will position all sorts of extreme fake definitions. It's what they do. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 12:43:08 GMT
Maybe the ex remainers will stop looking backwards and try to find ways of making the present situation work the best way it can . Its ironic that the ex remainers are the ones looking backwards . If you care to look trying to make the situation work best is exactly what I advocate But what we see over and over is insecure leavers - Accusing remainers of being undemocratic even treason
- Making false assertions of how bad the EU was and is aka 'Project Look What We'll Pretend We Saved you From'
- Making at best sus statements about how well Brexit is going economically
- And then reacting with all sorts of shite when those ^ are challenged
Don't want shite challenged don't post shite in the first place
You can’t have insecure winners Steve . The losers are the ex remainers ..because they lost . |
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 12:44:47 GMT
The evidence suggests very much that a significant number of leavers are no longer sure about their position
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 12:46:28 GMT
There is no official meaning for the term 'woke'. Depending on your political position, it can earther mean 'agrees with me' or 'is mentally ill in a particular way' A similar ambiguity exists around the exact meaning of 'right wing' - it's just the way politics is and way it must be. I'll go with the dictionary, you may not realise dictionaries give very good definitions of what words mean. Can't get the Oxford one online anymore but they now refer you to this one www.dictionary.com/browse/woke 'having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those involving the treatment of ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities:'Of course that either like or see nothing wrong in those injustices will position all sorts of extreme fake definitions. It's what they do. Full marks for ignoring that language changes and dictionaries follow. I’m confident that if you pick up a dictionary from the 1950s the definition of gay would not involve homosexuals . The fact us that the term ‘ woke’ is not generally defined as you insist it should be . |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 12:47:40 GMT
The evidence suggests very much that a significant number of leavers are no longer sure about their position Their position? The position that we are no longer members of the EU isn’t really disputable. |
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