Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2022 15:03:28 GMT
Do you not believe in our judicial system or the ability of our security forces to contain a girl? No, I don’t. Because they will be instructed to release her by their political masters and they will I wonder why the political masters would do that?
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 23, 2022 15:06:25 GMT
NO, not if they have the same mindset as you. No faith in your own country eh! I've got faith in my country, just not in the people running it, do we even run our own country now?
I have faith that our once great country, will be great again one day, when we take back control of it.
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Post by sword on Nov 23, 2022 15:27:01 GMT
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Post by see2 on Nov 23, 2022 15:45:10 GMT
The only area of debate is the actions of the double agent. If he was, as a double agent, in the Middle of a gang smuggling people into Syria, then he would have to play the part, or be discovered as a double agent, and probably have his throat slit.
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Post by Handyman on Nov 23, 2022 19:29:24 GMT
There were probably a lot more agents or assets on the ground back then from various countries some close to Syria, and some may well still be there including ours
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Post by Steve on Nov 23, 2022 21:39:55 GMT
She was a 15 year old when she left. We know so what Because if a 15 year old girl in Rochdale can't consent to have sex etc then neither could she. That's the law. As for what she said and did while in Syria I suggest look at the sad case of John Cantie - 10 years since he was kidnapped by IS and now presumed dead but not before he made all those propaganda videos for ISIS. People will do all sorts of things in such circumstances, don't pretend you would never do so - you don't know and hopefully will never find out. Is she a security risk? Of course she is but she is wherever she is and we should not be dumping UK issues onto other countries. She is a British citizen, we should stand up and be honest and deal with our problems ourselves. Even if that means locking her up for the rest of her days should a successful trial for terrorist so convict.
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 24, 2022 7:36:11 GMT
Is she a security risk? Of course she is but she is wherever she is and we should not be dumping UK issues onto other countries. She is a British citizen, we should stand up and be honest and deal with our problems ourselves. Even if that means locking her up for the rest of her days should a successful trial for terrorist so convict. Any muslim constitutes an elevated security compared with non-muslims - we have about 40,000 on MI5 files and they're just the ones that they know about. And Islam isn't - or at least shouldn't be - a UK problem. We should have been restricting immigration from countries that spnsor terrorism for decades. The idea that we should even be considering allowing a muslim who has been part of Islamic State (and almost certainly still is) back into the country is completely insane. And the fact that we're giving this piece of trash legal aid is beyond insane. As Enoch Powell once said "We must be mad, literally mad"... " It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre".
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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 9:29:09 GMT
Because if a 15 year old girl in Rochdale can't consent to have sex etc then neither could she. That's the law. As for what she said and did while in Syria I suggest look at the sad case of John Cantie - 10 years since he was kidnapped by IS and now presumed dead but not before he made all those propaganda videos for ISIS. People will do all sorts of things in such circumstances, don't pretend you would never do so - you don't know and hopefully will never find out. Is she a security risk? Of course she is but she is wherever she is and we should not be dumping UK issues onto other countries. She is a British citizen, we should stand up and be honest and deal with our problems ourselves. Even if that means locking her up for the rest of her days should a successful trial for terrorist so convict. Yes, it is unlawful to for a 15-year-old male or female to engage in sexual activity under British Law, but what has that got to do with we she and the two other girls did. According to what we have been told following the investigation conducted in the UK those three girls went to Syria with the sole intention and determination to marry ISIS Fighters Jihadi's and provide them with children to join in the Jihad when they were old enough, they willingly joined a proscribed terrorist group They were married to fighters as they intended and had sex willingly with adult men, it is the norm in some countries especially Muslim nations for even younger girls to be married off usually for money, they had sex with their new husbands any criminal offence in Syria.? No, any criminal offence in the UK No what they did was outside of the UK IMO may not come within UK Jurisdiction. If all three had somehow managed to get back to the UK, would they be charged with Unlawful Sex in another country, I think not what would be the point, they may well have been charged with joining a terrorist group the worst the world has seen for some years, but only if there was enough evidence to prove it. What has John Cantie got to do with what is under discussion? Nothing just deflection all sort of horrible things were done by ISIS. Begum was born here in the UK and was a British Citizen, she is no longer a British Citizen her Citizenship was withdrawn removed by the then Home Sec as permitted under English Law, all the problems she and the other two caused happened in another country not the UK we should do nothing, not our problem her problem of her own making.
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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 9:30:38 GMT
Is she a security risk? Of course she is but she is wherever she is and we should not be dumping UK issues onto other countries. She is a British citizen, we should stand up and be honest and deal with our problems ourselves. Even if that means locking her up for the rest of her days should a successful trial for terrorist so convict. Any muslim constitutes an elevated security compared with non-muslims - we have about 40,000 on MI5 files and they're just the ones that they know about. And Islam isn't - or at least shouldn't be - a UK problem. We should have been restricting immigration from countries that spnsor terrorism for decades. The idea that we should even be considering allowing a muslim who has been part of Islamic State (and almost certainly still is) back into the country is completely insane. And the fact that we're giving this piece of trash legal aid is beyond insane. As Enoch Powell once said "We must be mad, literally mad"... " It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre". Yes, well said I agree
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Post by Steve on Nov 24, 2022 10:33:52 GMT
So Steppenwolf and Handyman want all muslims arrested and locked up/deported as security threats. No sensible debate with them then
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2022 10:46:02 GMT
Because if a 15 year old girl in Rochdale can't consent to have sex etc then neither could she. That's the law. As for what she said and did while in Syria I suggest look at the sad case of John Cantie - 10 years since he was kidnapped by IS and now presumed dead but not before he made all those propaganda videos for ISIS. People will do all sorts of things in such circumstances, don't pretend you would never do so - you don't know and hopefully will never find out. Is she a security risk? Of course she is but she is wherever she is and we should not be dumping UK issues onto other countries. She is a British citizen, we should stand up and be honest and deal with our problems ourselves. Even if that means locking her up for the rest of her days should a successful trial for terrorist so convict. I think you will find ISIS Muslims Islam do not abide by the UK laws of the land they have their own, and that's the one they follow, they marry children, so in their eyes there is no crime, it's perfectly normal in their religion to have sex with a 15 year old, this is the law they want to introduce in to our country, and they want Bugum to spread the word, it would be far easier to spread the word if she lived here.... starting to get it yet?
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Post by Steve on Nov 24, 2022 10:54:29 GMT
So what?
There are 3 phases of this saga
1. Decisions she made as a minor - she can't be held liable for those in perpetuity
2. Decisions she made while in an oppressive murderous environment - the Cantie and other cases show people will do anything under that mental duress
3. Since she was discovered in a refugee camp. She's a British citizen and damaged, maybe deranged and possibly dangerous as she may now be it's not for the UK to dump our problems on other countries by lying about her nationality
Shitting on other people's doorsteps is never a good look
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2022 11:00:52 GMT
Bugum is sending out the best message possible to young impressionable Muslim girls living in the UK thinking of joining ISIS.
DO NOT join ISIS or you will end up like me, a banished nomad, who can not come back to the UK.
That is the message that needs to be sent out.
That is why she must never return or gain citizenship to the UK EVER again.
This is a huge blow in recruiting young Muslims be it boys or girls to join ISIS.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 24, 2022 11:22:21 GMT
So what? There are 3 phases of this saga 1. Decisions she made as a minor - she can't be held liable for those in perpetuity 2. Decisions she made while in an oppressive murderous environment - the Cantie and other cases show people will do anything under that mental duress 3. Since she was discovered in a refugee camp. She's a British citizen and damaged, maybe deranged and possibly dangerous as she may now be it's not for the UK to dump our problems on other countries by lying about her nationality Shitting on other people's doorsteps is never a good look Nazi camp guards made decisions while in an oppressive coercive regime. We have eschewed 'following orders' as a legitimate argument for defence have we not or have I got that wrong. Being once in the Hitler youth was never held as a get out clause for being a murderer. Surely we have to be consistent in what we believe is right. The UKs youngest terror offender was held responsible for his actions whilst under 16 and realistically he did not do anything other than plan as I understand it. This young lady was also responsible as a minor and the outcome for many individuals was far far worse.
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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 11:57:26 GMT
So Steppenwolf and Handyman want all muslims arrested and locked up/deported as security threats. No sensible debate with them then Show me where that has been posted in here by either of us have stated that? go on the balls in your Court, prove it
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