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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 11:59:53 GMT
Because if a 15 year old girl in Rochdale can't consent to have sex etc then neither could she. That's the law. As for what she said and did while in Syria I suggest look at the sad case of John Cantie - 10 years since he was kidnapped by IS and now presumed dead but not before he made all those propaganda videos for ISIS. People will do all sorts of things in such circumstances, don't pretend you would never do so - you don't know and hopefully will never find out. Is she a security risk? Of course she is but she is wherever she is and we should not be dumping UK issues onto other countries. She is a British citizen, we should stand up and be honest and deal with our problems ourselves. Even if that means locking her up for the rest of her days should a successful trial for terrorist so convict. I think you will find ISIS Muslims Islam do not abide by the UK laws of the land they have their own, and that's the one they follow, they marry children, so in their eyes there is no crime, it's perfectly normal in their religion to have sex with a 15 year old, this is the law they want to introduce in to our country, and they want Bugum to spread the word, it would be far easier to spread the word if she lived here.... starting to get it yet? I agree some Muslims do not obey the Laws in other countries, |
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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 12:03:17 GMT
Bugum is sending out the best message possible to young impressionable Muslim girls living in the UK thinking of joining ISIS. DO NOT join ISIS or you will end up like me, a banished nomad, who can not come back to the UK. That is the message that needs to be sent out. That is why she must never return or gain citizenship to the UK EVER again. This is a huge blow in recruiting young Muslims be it boys or girls to join ISIS. I agree, I do hope that some Islamic youngsters in the UK are deterred from making the same mistakes as Begum and her two friends made, two are believed dead and Begum is stateless |
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Post by Steve on Nov 24, 2022 12:07:45 GMT
So Steppenwolf and Handyman want all muslims arrested and locked up/deported as security threats.  No sensible debate with them then Show me where that has been posted in here by either of us have stated that? go on the balls in your Court, prove it Easy Handyman, see quote above. No one put a gun to your head to so emphatically agree and remember that was Steppenwolf's logic for her to be excluded. Any muslim constitutes an elevated security compared with non-muslims . . . Yes, well said I agree |
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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 13:59:23 GMT
Show me where that has been posted in here by either of us have stated that? go on the balls in your Court, prove it Easy Handyman, see quote above. No one put a gun to your head to so emphatically agree and remember that was Steppenwolf's logic for her to be excluded. No proof as usual just ducking and diving because neither of us stated that, just another figment of your imagination at work again, and again as usual wrong again, you do have a talent for it, which I suppose is better than no talent at all |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2022 14:02:12 GMT
Bugum is sending out the best message possible to young impressionable Muslim girls living in the UK thinking of joining ISIS. DO NOT join ISIS or you will end up like me, a banished nomad, who can not come back to the UK. That is the message that needs to be sent out. That is why she must never return or gain citizenship to the UK EVER again. This is a huge blow in recruiting young Muslims be it boys or girls to join ISIS. I agree, I do hope that some Islamic youngsters in the UK are deterred from making the same mistakes as Begum and her two friends made, two are believed dead and Begum is stateless Yes it's too late for Begum, and if she was genuinely remorseful and wanted to right her wrongs, that's exactly what she would do.
If she was a decent human being she would deter young impressionable girls from joining ISIS, tell them her story, and look where it has ended for her.
I can guarantee you she wont do that, she will not speak out against ISIS because she is part of ISIS, always has and always will be, she doesn't care what happens to young girls or boys who join ISIS, all she cares about is herself and her cause... ISIS.
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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 14:19:19 GMT
I think you are right on that, according to the Government Lawyers in Court today they state " She went into this with her eyes wide open" which IMHO she did
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2022 14:27:19 GMT
I think you are right on that, according to the Government Lawyers in Court today they state " She went into this with her eyes wide open" which IMHO she did Agree, she didn't just wake up one morning and think 'I know I think I'll join ISIS'.
This manipulative 15 year old knew what she was walking in to, and it gave her a buzz, she's full of hate and contempt for the West you can see it in her cold expressionless soulless eyes.
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Post by dappy on Nov 24, 2022 14:39:42 GMT
I think you are right. This person (child at the time) did do what she did knowingly and probably not on the spur of the moment. To the extent that children are responsible for their actions, she is responsible. The involvement of Western government agents is troubling but doesn't excuse her responsibility.
Not sure how it has come about but this particular individual has become the media face of the much larger number of people who went to Syria. Mny of those were older, many very probably did worse things. They have been quietly readmitted back into the UK. Begum is higher profile not because of her actions and her culpability but because the media and politicians have chosen to make her so. She is a useful symbol to focus our hatred on and for politicians to make political capital out of to look hard and grub for votes. The tabloids can use her picture to sell their product by stoking outrage. The public can be all virtuous by calling her names. Its a win-win for so many. Is it justice that the way she is treated should be based on her media profile rather than her relative actions - of course not but who cares about justice when there are votes to be won, papers to be sold and outrage to be enjoyed. I like to think that once upon a time our country was better than this. Perhaps I am being naive.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 24, 2022 15:15:41 GMT
I think you are right. This person (child at the time) did do what she did knowingly and probably not on the spur of the moment. To the extent that children are responsible for their actions, she is responsible. The involvement of Western government agents is troubling but doesn't excuse her responsibility. Not sure how it has come about but this particular individual has become the media face of the much larger number of people who went to Syria. Mny of those were older, many very probably did worse things. They have been quietly readmitted back into the UK. Begum is higher profile not because of her actions and her culpability but because the media and politicians have chosen to make her so. She is a useful symbol to focus our hatred on and for politicians to make political capital out of to look hard and grub for votes. The tabloids can use her picture to sell their product by stoking outrage. The public can be all virtuous by calling her names. Its a win-win for so many. Is it justice that the way she is treated should be based on her media profile rather than her relative actions - of course not but who cares about justice when there are votes to be won, papers to be sold and outrage to be enjoyed. I like to think that once upon a time our country was better than this. Perhaps I am being naive. The thing you have to remember ISIS is not in the telephone directory, they don't have a website, they don't have contact details, if they did the CTP would be able to keep track of them.
Begum went to great lengths to connect with ISIS, she had help from others, she knew who to contact and how to contact them, that is clearly someone with intelligence and know how, and she quickly went up the ranks to be a major player, Begum is one of the most dangerous individuals we will ever come across.
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Post by sword on Nov 24, 2022 15:24:28 GMT
The bottom line is she should have been handed over to the Syrian State to face justice,but we couldn't do that because we have spent ten years demonizing Assad and Syria more than ISIS,she entered another Country illegally to team up with terrorists,think back to when you were fifteen,i certainly knew what was right and wrong,she probably spent months if not years online looking at ISIS beheadings and murder,she won't get any sympathy from me.
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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 19:24:57 GMT
I think you are right. This person (child at the time) did do what she did knowingly and probably not on the spur of the moment. To the extent that children are responsible for their actions, she is responsible. The involvement of Western government agents is troubling but doesn't excuse her responsibility. Not sure how it has come about but this particular individual has become the media face of the much larger number of people who went to Syria. Mny of those were older, many very probably did worse things. They have been quietly readmitted back into the UK. Begum is higher profile not because of her actions and her culpability but because the media and politicians have chosen to make her so. She is a useful symbol to focus our hatred on and for politicians to make political capital out of to look hard and grub for votes. The tabloids can use her picture to sell their product by stoking outrage. The public can be all virtuous by calling her names. Its a win-win for so many. Is it justice that the way she is treated should be based on her media profile rather than her relative actions - of course not but who cares about justice when there are votes to be won, papers to be sold and outrage to be enjoyed. I like to think that once upon a time our country was better than this. Perhaps I am being naive. The thing you have to remember ISIS is not in the telephone directory, they don't have a website, they don't have contact details, if they did the CTP would be able to keep track of them.
Begum went to great lengths to connect with ISIS, she had help from others, she knew who to contact and how to contact them, that is clearly someone with intelligence and know how, and she quickly went up the ranks to be a major player, Begum is one of the most dangerous individuals we will ever come across.
I agree, |
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Post by Steve on Nov 25, 2022 0:56:51 GMT
Easy Handyman, see quote above. No one put a gun to your head to so emphatically agree and remember that was Steppenwolf's logic for her to be excluded. No proof as usual just ducking and diving because neither of us stated that, just another figment of your imagination at work again, and again as usual wrong again, you do have a talent for it, which I suppose is better than no talent at all No you're just in denial of what you posted. You said you were in full agreement with someone who in effect said the reason she should be excluded is because she is a muslim Maybe in future you should read what you say you're in agreement with before rushing to post |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 25, 2022 8:52:48 GMT
So, Steve, your translation of my statement that: "Any muslim constitutes an elevated security compared with non-muslims" is:
"So Steppenwolf and Handyman want all muslims arrested and locked up/deported as security threats".
Where does that say anything about arresting or locking up or deporting anyone? As I said, you're the one who can't debate sensibly because you obviously don't understand the English language.
What I did say is "The idea that we should even be considering allowing a muslim who has been part of Islamic State (and almost certainly still is) back into the country is completely insane".
Do you disagree with that? And do you disagree with the statement that "Any muslim constitutes an elevated security risk compared with non-muslims"?
The fact is that 90% of worldwide terrorism is perpetrated by muslims. Even the Archbishop of Canterbury has said that it can no longer be stated that terrorism is nothing to do with Islam. And research (by HJS) has shown that the more muslims you have in a country the more likely it becomes that there is terrorism.
However this country accepts the principle of people having the freedom to practise their religion, so any talk of deporting muslims or locking them up is futile. What we can do is limit immigration from countries that sponsor terrorism. Do you disagree with that?
A religion is an ideology - it's no different in principle from a political ideology. Yet we proscribe some political beliefs. National Action for example have been proscribed for being "white supremacists". Any member of that organisation can be locked up. Yet a believer in Islam cannot be locked up. Since they clearly believe in muslim supremacy - non-believers are called kuffar/infidels - do you think that Islam should maybe be proscribed too. If not why not?
Could we have a sensible debate about what I actually said - not what you said I said. Sadly I I've seen no evidence that you have the intelligence for sensible debate.
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Post by Steve on Nov 25, 2022 9:15:51 GMT
I suggest you look at the exchange: Is she a security risk? Of course she is but she is wherever she is and we should not be dumping UK issues onto other countries. She is a British citizen, we should stand up and be honest and deal with our problems ourselves. Even if that means locking her up for the rest of her days should a successful trial for terrorist so convict. Any muslim constitutes an elevated security compared with non-muslims - we have about 40,000 on MI5 files and they're just the ones that they know about. And Islam isn't - or at least shouldn't be - a UK problem. We should have been restricting immigration from countries that spnsor terrorism for decades. The idea that we should even be considering allowing a muslim who has been part of Islamic State (and almost certainly still is) back into the country is completely insane. And the fact that we're giving this piece of trash legal aid is beyond insane. As Enoch Powell once said "We must be mad, literally mad"... " It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre". Like I said you're effectively saying no muslim should be allowed to stay in the UK unless they're locked up |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 25, 2022 9:32:10 GMT
I suggest you look at the exchange: Any muslim constitutes an elevated security compared with non-muslims - we have about 40,000 on MI5 files and they're just the ones that they know about. And Islam isn't - or at least shouldn't be - a UK problem. We should have been restricting immigration from countries that spnsor terrorism for decades. The idea that we should even be considering allowing a muslim who has been part of Islamic State (and almost certainly still is) back into the country is completely insane. And the fact that we're giving this piece of trash legal aid is beyond insane. As Enoch Powell once said "We must be mad, literally mad"... " It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre". Like I said you're effectively saying no muslim should be allowed to stay in the UK unless they're locked up Why not just ask him if that’s what he meant ? |
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