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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 16:01:58 GMT
Begum "butchered tortured and maimed thousands upon thousands of people", evidence please. Al I am saying she should be brought here, investigated properly, charged if there is a need and sentenced, I am not making excuses for anyone. We have hearsay and opinion to what she was involved in, and our justice does not work like that, maybe in Syria it does though. Hearsay, yeah the CTP have a dossier on her, along with other world intelligence organizations, nothing hearsay about it, why do you think they are going to painstaking lengths to keep her out of the UK? She was a 15 year old when she left. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 16:03:28 GMT
Begum "butchered tortured and maimed thousands upon thousands of people", evidence please. Al I am saying she should be brought here, investigated properly, charged if there is a need and sentenced, I am not making excuses for anyone. We have hearsay and opinion to what she was involved in, and our justice does not work like that, maybe in Syria it does though. Grow up will you, she and her two mates willingly joined ISIS and that is what ISIS did, she and they were part of it, or do you think they just did a dusting waiting for their men to come back from slaughtering people Like wives go back to their husbands'/boyfriends' time and again after getting beat up. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 16:04:24 GMT
Hearsay, yeah the CTP have a dossier on her, along with other world intelligence organizations, nothing hearsay about it, why do you think they are going to painstaking lengths to keep her out of the UK? That is way above his pay grade and comprehension Begum did not commit mass murder. 😂 |
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Post by bancroft on Nov 22, 2022 16:08:55 GMT
Hearsay, yeah the CTP have a dossier on her, along with other world intelligence organizations, nothing hearsay about it, why do you think they are going to painstaking lengths to keep her out of the UK? She was a 15 year old when she left. I also think she should be allowed back though monitored for a while here too. If she can deter others going that must be a good thing. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 22, 2022 16:15:37 GMT
Hearsay, yeah the CTP have a dossier on her, along with other world intelligence organizations, nothing hearsay about it, why do you think they are going to painstaking lengths to keep her out of the UK? She was a 15 year old when she left. So what?
Girls of that age are mature enough to have babies, do you think girls of 15 are pushing dolls prams, and sucking their thumbs?
Most 15 year old boys and girls could buy and sell us.
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Post by dappy on Nov 22, 2022 16:41:16 GMT
The use of this young adult now (and child at the time this incident began) as a cardboard cutout focal point for abuse against a pretty awful organisation of which she was a minor part continues. Few of her abusers think of her as a human being, she is just a convenient media driven fall guy. Few of those abusers, I suspect, are aware that many ither people with a lower profile but higher involvement have since returned to this country with little fuss. Our world these days is dominated by media profile and the obsession with finding hate figures we can rge against.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 22, 2022 17:01:48 GMT
Begum as a child acted stupidly and naively helped it seems by Western Intelligence. It appears she acted out of free will but as she was a child her capacity for free will judgements is generally held to be impaired. She has become the media face of IS in the UK and her case is politicised as a result. She has ceased to be judged as a human being for her actions as a child and is now a poster girl being punished for the actions of the movement of which she was a minor part. Less high profile people involved to a much greater extent in IS have returned to the country with no fanfare and no tabloid headlines. Her treatment is not fair but is sadly the way of the world in these media driven days with spineless politicians being far more interested in tabloid headlines than in doing the right thing. She reached the age of 16 when out there and made the decision to stay. At some point you have to accept she has criminal responsibility for involving herself in crimes whilst legally responsible for her actions. As regards being fair I am sure there were many people who had their heads lopped off and thought that was particularly unfair and there is little doubt she aided and abetted ISIL in their activities. Just following orders of an abuser, and that is debateable, is not a carte blache to involve oneself in murder. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 17:01:54 GMT
She was a 15 year old when she left. So what?
Girls of that age are mature enough to have babies, do you think girls of 15 are pushing dolls prams, and sucking their thumbs?
Most 15 year old boys and girls could buy and sell us.
She was classed as a minor. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 17:07:28 GMT
Begum as a child acted stupidly and naively helped it seems by Western Intelligence. It appears she acted out of free will but as she was a child her capacity for free will judgements is generally held to be impaired. She has become the media face of IS in the UK and her case is politicised as a result. She has ceased to be judged as a human being for her actions as a child and is now a poster girl being punished for the actions of the movement of which she was a minor part. Less high profile people involved to a much greater extent in IS have returned to the country with no fanfare and no tabloid headlines. Her treatment is not fair but is sadly the way of the world in these media driven days with spineless politicians being far more interested in tabloid headlines than in doing the right thing. She reached the age of 16 when out there and made the decision to stay. At some point you have to accept she has criminal responsibility for involving herself in crimes whilst legally responsible for her actions. As regards being fair I am sure there were many people who had their heads lopped off and thought that was particularly unfair and there is little doubt she aided and abetted ISIL in their activities. Just following orders of an abuser, and that is debateable, is not a carte blache to involve oneself in murder. How do you know she made a decision to stay. On one hand you acknowledge that IS are the scum of the Earth and would stop at no 'pressure' they could apply to get their way, including murder, maiming, torture and manipulation but on the other hand believe a '16' year old girl was their equal. 😂 You really don't get coercion, do you? |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 22, 2022 17:27:34 GMT
This is what the mi5 officer said at Begum immigration tribunal even at the tender age of 15 she knew what was going on and what she was doing.
She knew what she was doing’
The officer, who spoke from behind a curtain and was referred to as Witness E, told the appeal it was “worth remembering” the crimes IS had committed by the time Ms Begum left for Syria. He listed atrocities including “the second deadliest terror attack in history” when 1,700 cadets were slaughtered in Iraq in June 2014, the genocide of Yazidis in the Iraqi district of Sinjar and the beheading of journalists including James Foley, Alan Henning and David Haines. He said: “In my mind and that of colleagues, it is not conceivable that even a 15-year-old - that 15-year-old having been predicted As and A*s, an intelligent, articulate and presumably critically thinking individual - would not know what [IS] was about.“In some respects, I do believe she knew what she was doing and had agency in doing so.”
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Post by sandypine on Nov 22, 2022 17:30:59 GMT
She reached the age of 16 when out there and made the decision to stay. At some point you have to accept she has criminal responsibility for involving herself in crimes whilst legally responsible for her actions. As regards being fair I am sure there were many people who had their heads lopped off and thought that was particularly unfair and there is little doubt she aided and abetted ISIL in their activities. Just following orders of an abuser, and that is debateable, is not a carte blache to involve oneself in murder. How do you know she made a decision to stay. On one hand you acknowledge that IS are the scum of the Earth and would stop at no 'pressure' they could apply to get their way, including murder, maiming, torture and manipulation but on the other hand believe a '16' year old girl was their equal. 😂 You really don't get coercion, do you? Did she not say she had no regrets when she emerged at the age of 19 or thereabouts. I suppose many Nazi camp guards were coerced into helping to kill people. I am not aware that was ever an acceptable defence in that I was just following orders. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 22, 2022 18:19:45 GMT
Did she not say she had no regrets when she emerged at the age of 19 or thereabouts. I suppose many Nazi camp guards were coerced into helping to kill people. I am not aware that was ever an acceptable defence in that I was just following orders. Is the right answer, not that the Begum supporters have actually adduced any evidence of coercion in the first place. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 22, 2022 18:22:36 GMT
Yes, she knew what she was doing down to her now Yes she did. But feelings would determine whether or not she carried through with her decisions. In other words, thinking plans the how the where and the when, but feelings determine whether or not the plans are followed through. IMO humans, including myself, live in our thinking rationalising logical brain, and think that is who and what we are. It is a mistake, one that I used to make. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2022 19:00:39 GMT
She has already admitted it was her decision to travel to Syria - so calling that trafficked is a bit of a leap.. Add in the fact that she stole her sister's passport to go and support ISIS. It was all her own work. Deception on her part at the airports. Ignored widespread publicity in the press urging the three young women to return to the UK, not travel on to Syria, after travelling to Turkey. Surely Bethnal Green Academy was a stable part of their education? It appears that her friends Amira Abase, 15, and Kadiza Sultana, 16 were killed, the latter in a Russian airstrike while they were doing the world a favour by helping to wipe out the Islamist extremists of IS. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31581739 |
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Post by Handyman on Nov 22, 2022 19:01:22 GMT
Hearsay, yeah the CTP have a dossier on her, along with other world intelligence organizations, nothing hearsay about it, why do you think they are going to painstaking lengths to keep her out of the UK? She was a 15 year old when she left. We know so what |
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