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Post by patman post on Apr 11, 2024 11:02:30 GMT
You have my sympathy for the deprived and impoverished life you must have been leading pre-Brexit if your life and prospects are better now… FFS We were being fucked over by the EUSSR and we still are by those arseholes in Brussels who usher their thirdworld dross to UK shores...... My heart bleeds to think you weren’t able to take advantage of the opportunities the UK’s leading role during its membership of the world’s biggest trading bloc. And now the UK, having chosen to take back control of its borders, is unable to take back control of its borders. It makes one wonder if the current anti immigrant wheeze of today’s Brexit administration is to run the UK so far into the ground that it is no longer appealing as a destination… |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 11, 2024 11:07:17 GMT
Yes. Meanwhile since 2016 we've heard nothing but sulking from remoaners who are so bereft of political ideas of their own they don't know what to do without being told how to by the EU Commission. And to what heights (or even sunny uplands) have the Johnson, Truss and Sunak administrations led us to? Education is failing, the NHS is on the verge of collapse, the cost of living has gone through the roof, strikes are reaching the point they were when Britain was regarded as the sick nation of Europe, and sickness and depression are creating a large non-working sick note class. And the excuse is the pandemic and the Ukraine war — as if no other country has to contend with these… Education was failing anyway, it is too focused on academia to the cost of all else. We need more vocational training for the young. The NHS was struggling anyway (just look at all the PC rubbish that was required of it and what happened at Tavistock!) Strikes? We had plenty when we were in the EU. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/09/tube-strike-london-communters-chaos-rail-bus-trainswww.gov.uk/government/news/rail-strike-june-2015www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-confirms-new-strike-dates-in-network-rail-dispute/Strikes in Italy, Strikes in Germany strikes across the EU: www.euronews.com/travel/2024/04/10/europes-summer-travel-strikes-when-where-and-what-disruption-you-can-expect-in-augustwww.euronews.com/travel/2024/03/11/germany-strikes-flight-and-train-cancellations-to-cause-travel-chaos-as-transport-unions-wAs if no other country has to contend with these? Come on mate, journalism has never been easier to access. Bear in mind our country is the land where Trade Unionism emerged. Where people once toiled down coal mines risking death, but the pay was generally quite good, and when there were problems people went on strike. Agriculture was unionised too. Now wealthy farmers are complaining because they can't hire modern slaves from Eastern Europe. Like I give a shit. Pay a decent wage to unionised Labour and people will do the work. |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 11, 2024 11:07:19 GMT
FFS We were being fucked over by the EUSSR and we still are by those arseholes in Brussels who usher their thirdworld dross to UK shores...... My heart bleeds to think you weren’t able to take advantage of the opportunities the UK’s leading role during its membership of the world’s biggest trading bloc. And now the UK, having chosen to take back control of its borders, is unable to take back control of its borders. It makes one wonder if the current anti immigrant wheeze of today’s Brexit administration is to run the UK so far into the ground that it is no longer appealing as a destination… More leaver BOLLOCKS the EUSSR are not he biggest trading bloc....And lets all think now who are the lefty woke wankers we have who are supposed to control our borders? They don't even know the difference between children or adults FFS... |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 11, 2024 11:13:08 GMT
Since it also has a Parliament and speaks as one voice as the largest trading block in the world, thus carrying a lot of influential clout, why not? For some reason fundamentalist brexiteers find the prospect of becoming a vassal, tributary state of the Imperial American Empire more appealing than being an equal, indeed a leading member of the European Union.
Don't ask me why, I don't understand it either. Never have.
Oh thats easy.. In 2008, the eurozone and the US had equivalent gross domestic products (GDP) at current prices of $14.2 trillion and $14.8 trillion respectively (€13.1 trillion and €13.6 trillion). Fifteen years on, the eurozone's GDP is just over $15 trillion, while US GDP has soared to $26.9 trillion. I have never seen the appeal of tying ourselves to a trade bloc that is barely growing. |
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Post by patman post on Apr 11, 2024 11:22:58 GMT
And to what heights (or even sunny uplands) have the Johnson, Truss and Sunak administrations led us to? Education is failing, the NHS is on the verge of collapse, the cost of living has gone through the roof, strikes are reaching the point they were when Britain was regarded as the sick nation of Europe, and sickness and depression are creating a large non-working sick note class. And the excuse is the pandemic and the Ukraine war — as if no other country has to contend with these… Education was failing anyway, it is too focused on academia to the cost of all else. We need more vocational training for the young. The NHS was struggling anyway (just look at all the PC rubbish that was required of it and what happened at Tavistock!) Strikes? We had plenty when we were in the EU. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/09/tube-strike-london-communters-chaos-rail-bus-trainswww.gov.uk/government/news/rail-strike-june-2015www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-confirms-new-strike-dates-in-network-rail-dispute/Strikes in Italy, Strikes in Germany strikes across the EU: www.euronews.com/travel/2024/04/10/europes-summer-travel-strikes-when-where-and-what-disruption-you-can-expect-in-augustwww.euronews.com/travel/2024/03/11/germany-strikes-flight-and-train-cancellations-to-cause-travel-chaos-as-transport-unions-wAs if no other country has to contend with these? Come on mate, journalism has never been easier to access. Bear in mind our country is the land where Trade Unionism emerged. Where people once toiled down coal mines risking death, but the pay was generally quite good, and when there were problems people went on strike. Agriculture was unionised too. Now wealthy farmers are complaining because they can't hire modern slaves from Eastern Europe. Like I give a shit. Pay a decent wage to unionised Labour and people will do the work. But all the examples you cite were happening while the UK was a member and pre-Brexit. Now the UK is free of the controls EU membership supposedly imposed, life in the UK is getting less enjoyable and getting worse. Where are the real tangible benefits that Brexit was supposed to bring — sovereignty isn’t securing borders, improving the NHS, bringing cheaper food… |
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 11, 2024 11:27:32 GMT
Pacifico: To complete the story, you need to define how you are measuring GDP: nominal or PPP. And also what exchange rate is in play. Over the 15 year period you have chosen, the USD-EUR exchange has fluctuated by over 40% so your choice of start and end points will have a big impact on how your story pans out.
And, as I'm sure you're aware GDP is not the be-all and end-all of metrics for defining wealth and well-being.
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Post by Vinny on Apr 11, 2024 11:35:45 GMT
But all the examples you cite were happening while the UK was a member and pre-Brexit. Now the UK is free of the controls EU membership supposedly imposed, life in the UK is getting less enjoyable and getting worse. Where are the real tangible benefits that Brexit was supposed to bring — sovereignty isn’t securing borders, improving the NHS, bringing cheaper food… Free trade deals. Benefit.
A reduction in unskilled EU Labour means that the Romanian pickpockets have gone. Benefit. The NHS has more money, but unfortunately diversity lunatics and the crazies at Tavistock have still taken a lot of cash from frontline services. Benefit. We are still subsidising farmers. We are still importing food from the EU. We will soon be importing food from unsubsidised nations in the Cairns group whom we now have free trade agreements with. Benefit. The pound is no longer overvalued, meaning our exports are no longer overvalued. Industrial decline has slowed, new factories are opening. Benefit. We are no longer bound by EU rules and were able to independently approve vaccines without going through the EU Commission. Benefit. And Nigel Farage is no longer an MEP, so you can't moan about him all the time. Get over it. |
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Post by patman post on Apr 11, 2024 12:07:10 GMT
But all the examples you cite were happening while the UK was a member and pre-Brexit. Now the UK is free of the controls EU membership supposedly imposed, life in the UK is getting less enjoyable and getting worse. Where are the real tangible benefits that Brexit was supposed to bring — sovereignty isn’t securing borders, improving the NHS, bringing cheaper food… Free trade deals. Benefit.
A reduction in unskilled EU Labour means that the Romanian pickpockets have gone. Benefit. The NHS has more money, but unfortunately diversity lunatics and the crazies at Tavistock have still taken a lot of cash from frontline services. Benefit. We are still subsidising farmers. We are still importing food from the EU. We will soon be importing food from unsubsidised nations in the Cairns group whom we now have free trade agreements with. Benefit. The pound is no longer overvalued, meaning our exports are no longer overvalued. Industrial decline has slowed, new factories are opening. Benefit. We are no longer bound by EU rules and were able to independently approve vaccines without going through the EU Commission. Benefit. And Nigel Farage is no longer an MEP, so you can't moan about him all the time. Get over it. Who mentioned Farage? Certainly not me — but it's indicative that your thinking still conjures him up when you're looking for excuses to hide the UK's current and growing problems.
The UK could have followed its own course of vaccine action even if it were an EU member. Any EU member state could have used the same EU provision, which allows member states to grant temporary authorisation for a medicinal product in response to the spread of infectious diseases among the others.
It's also noticeable that you're still citing these supposedly oven-ready trade deals (which, like the Rwanda immigrant deterrent) are yet to begin operating. And all the while, queues of food imports grow longer at the ports and fresh produce grows older and more expensive in the shops — often resulting in less choice and/or empty shelves in the supermarkets.
The other straws you're clutching at ignore the factory and steelworks closures and the UK's balance of trade deficit (£33billion in 2023).
It's likely to take more imaginative thinking — and less excuse making for failure — to make a success of Brexit, than the current crop of in-fighting Brexiteers and their supporting factions can muster.
Otherwise, hitching itself to the US looks like the only answer...
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Post by Vinny on Apr 11, 2024 12:14:06 GMT
I never said "oven ready". Did I?
Steelworks closures were happening when we were in the EU.
At the behest of the EU, Amber Rudd, who was at the time minister for energy closed all our remaining coal mines.
Coal is vital in operating blast furnaces.
Our trade deficit has fallen as a percentage of trade.
Our exports are worth more than they were when we were members (taking into account inflation).
What are you complaining about?
You have no arguments for going back in.
You know full well that nobody wants the Euro, or Schengen and we'd have to sign up to those.
Make the best of it and stop moaning.
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Post by patman post on Apr 11, 2024 12:59:46 GMT
I never said "oven ready". Did I? Steelworks closures were happening when we were in the EU. At the behest of the EU, Amber Rudd, who was at the time minister for energy closed all our remaining coal mines. Coal is vital in operating blast furnaces. Our trade deficit has fallen as a percentage of trade. Our exports are worth more than they were when we were members (taking into account inflation). What are you complaining about? You have no arguments for going back in. You know full well that nobody wants the Euro, or Schengen and we'd have to sign up to those. Make the best of it and stop moaning. I've not argued that the UK should go "back in". I have said it needs better people in government to make Brexit a success. I don't believe the UK could rejoin the EU on acceptable terms.
When the UK was an EU member, were even many of the most ardent EUrophiles clamouring for the euro or Schengen?
I've always thought that burning finite fossils as fuels would be wasteful (and later, harmful) when water, wind, and solar power could be efficiently harnessed. Nuclear too, if governments could make up their minds and not start and stop and prevaricate, but appoint competent managers and efficient contractors — HS2 is the latest example of a government Snafu.
UK's trade was mainly in balance since the end of WWII until approx 1970. From then until 2000 it experienced peaks and severe troughs, and has been in decline since. This was made bearable by the services sector — but with firms now moving their listings away from London (because of the UK's failing economy?), losing substantial financial services will make it difficult for the sector to soften the effects.
Blinding ourselves to the truth that Brexit isn't bringing any benefits by making up and believing fairy tales isn't helping.
Britain is broken and needs new management...
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Post by Vinny on Apr 11, 2024 13:02:55 GMT
High quality steel making requires extremely hot temperatures.
Coal offers those temperatures.
The only other way is hydrogen.
The Tories didn't invest in it, the companies didn't have the funds to invest in it.
That industry went into decline. Nothing to do with Brexit.
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 11, 2024 13:04:01 GMT
"A reduction in unskilled EU Labour means that the Romanian pickpockets have gone."
Replaced at least one-for-one by bogus 'care workers' from the subcontinent and sub-Saharan Africa.
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Post by patman post on Apr 11, 2024 13:14:27 GMT
My heart bleeds to think you weren’t able to take advantage of the opportunities the UK’s leading role during its membership of the world’s biggest trading bloc. And now the UK, having chosen to take back control of its borders, is unable to take back control of its borders. It makes one wonder if the current anti immigrant wheeze of today’s Brexit administration is to run the UK so far into the ground that it is no longer appealing as a destination… More leaver BOLLOCKS the EUSSR are not he biggest trading bloc....And lets all think now who are the lefty woke wankers we have who are supposed to control our borders? They don't even know the difference between children or adults FFS... The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world with 27 member countries. It promotes the free movement of goods, services, capital, and people within its borders, creating a single market of over 446 million consumers. Can you name another trading entity of similar wealth and size?
Brexiteers reclaimed leaving the EU would return to the UK control of the UK's borders. This isn't happening — so it's another broken commitment along with cheaper food and a better health service...
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Post by jonksy on Apr 11, 2024 13:25:35 GMT
More leaver BOLLOCKS the EUSSR are not he biggest trading bloc....And lets all think now who are the lefty woke wankers we have who are supposed to control our borders? They don't even know the difference between children or adults FFS... The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world with 27 member countries. It promotes the free movement of goods, services, capital, and people within its borders, creating a single market of over 446 million consumers. Can you name another trading entity of similar wealth and size?
Brexiteers reclaimed leaving the EU would return to the UK control of the UK's borders. This isn't happening — so it's another broken commitment along with cheaper food and a better health service...
Did we have control of of our borders before brexit. Like fuck we did...So much for the EUSSR being our friends... |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 11, 2024 13:28:34 GMT
More leaver BOLLOCKS the EUSSR are not he biggest trading bloc....And lets all think now who are the lefty woke wankers we have who are supposed to control our borders? They don't even know the difference between children or adults FFS... The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world with 27 member countries. It promotes the free movement of goods, services, capital, and people within its borders, creating a single market of over 446 million consumers. Can you name another trading entity of similar wealth and size?
Brexiteers reclaimed leaving the EU would return to the UK control of the UK's borders. This isn't happening — so it's another broken commitment along with cheaper food and a better health service...
Total BOLLOCKS the EUSSR aremot the biggest trading bloc. Biggest bunch of wankers would be more honest. |
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