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Post by Totheleft on Mar 17, 2024 16:43:35 GMT
Tell that to the 30,000 plus dead Gazans. Oh wait, Israel killed them all, you can't. All The Best Poke the bear and..... That's no excuse for what's happening in Gazza .I believe Israel has the right to seek and destroy Hamas. But to almost starve a entire nation is not on . Hamas supporters could use the same excuse has you for the October 7th Terrorist attacks |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 17, 2024 17:07:35 GMT
Tell that to the 30,000 plus dead Gazans. Oh wait, Israel killed them all, you can't. All The Best Poke the bear and..... So, you are aware that Israel has no real legal authority in Gaza, right? Unless it wants to be classed as an Occupying Force, and then under the Geneva Conventions it is legally required to ensure enough aid gets in, civilian casualties are kept to an absolute minimum, and civilian infrastructure is protected. It doesn't do any of those things. Israel also diverts legal Palestinian Tax Revenues headed to Gaza for things like food etc and withholds all funds unless it approves what it is being spent on. If it were anyone but Israel doing it to anyone but Gaza / Palestine the whole world would be up in arms about it. But because Israel hides it's own crimes behind the "Nazi shield" the world lets them get away with it. Shocking double-standards really, ones that the West as a whole should be utterly ashamed of. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 17, 2024 17:40:47 GMT
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Post by sandypine on Mar 17, 2024 19:36:25 GMT
So, you are aware that Israel has no real legal authority in Gaza, right? Unless it wants to be classed as an Occupying Force, and then under the Geneva Conventions it is legally required to ensure enough aid gets in, civilian casualties are kept to an absolute minimum, and civilian infrastructure is protected. It doesn't do any of those things. Israel also diverts legal Palestinian Tax Revenues headed to Gaza for things like food etc and withholds all funds unless it approves what it is being spent on. If it were anyone but Israel doing it to anyone but Gaza / Palestine the whole world would be up in arms about it. But because Israel hides it's own crimes behind the "very bad person shield" the world lets them get away with it. Shocking double-standards really, ones that the West as a whole should be utterly ashamed of. All The Best It is because it is Israel that the left and the Muslims coalesce into one unified force. If any other country had been attacked as Israel were and their citizens taken hostage then legality would have been clear and just action would have been clear. For some reason the left have always sided with groups like the PLO. If hundreds of UK citizens were murdered by another country because they were British and in that other country celebrations were held in the streets as dead UK citizens had their naked bodies paraded around the streets and cheered by the populace I have to say that it would be hard not to retaliate in an unrestrained fashion. There are no double standards it is recognising that brutal murder and torture are not the same as resisting Israel and initiating brutal murder brings on retaliation. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 17, 2024 20:01:34 GMT
So, you are aware that Israel has no real legal authority in Gaza, right? Unless it wants to be classed as an Occupying Force, and then under the Geneva Conventions it is legally required to ensure enough aid gets in, civilian casualties are kept to an absolute minimum, and civilian infrastructure is protected. It doesn't do any of those things. Israel also diverts legal Palestinian Tax Revenues headed to Gaza for things like food etc and withholds all funds unless it approves what it is being spent on. If it were anyone but Israel doing it to anyone but Gaza / Palestine the whole world would be up in arms about it. But because Israel hides it's own crimes behind the "very bad person shield" the world lets them get away with it. Shocking double-standards really, ones that the West as a whole should be utterly ashamed of. All The Best It is because it is Israel that the left and the Muslims coalesce into one unified force. If any other country had been attacked as Israel were and their citizens taken hostage then legality would have been clear and just action would have been clear. For some reason the left have always sided with groups like the PLO. If hundreds of UK citizens were murdered by another country because they were British and in that other country celebrations were held in the streets as dead UK citizens had their naked bodies paraded around the streets and cheered by the populace I have to say that it would be hard not to retaliate in an unrestrained fashion. There are no double standards it is recognising that brutal murder and torture are not the same as resisting Israel and initiating brutal murder brings on retaliation. Well, the problems with that is the following: If Oct 7th Attacks by Hamas offer Israel a green-light to commit atrocities against all Gazans, even non-combatants and those who do not support Hamas then the opposite must also be true. That is Israel's ongoing aggressions in the West Bank and Gaza (many of which are illegal under international treaties that Israel agreed to) offer Hamas a green-light to target Israelis, even non-combatants and those who do not support Likud. I don't happen to think either of those is acceptable. Could you explain why it is that you, at least on the face of it, seem to think that one of them is? All The Best |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 17, 2024 20:44:42 GMT
Genocide is not retaliation any more than massacres would equate to resistance.
As Thatcher once said, crime is crime is crime.
Neither Hamas or the IDF have any moral legitimacy when they massacre civilians and both of them have.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 17, 2024 21:10:09 GMT
It is because it is Israel that the left and the Muslims coalesce into one unified force. If any other country had been attacked as Israel were and their citizens taken hostage then legality would have been clear and just action would have been clear. For some reason the left have always sided with groups like the PLO. If hundreds of UK citizens were murdered by another country because they were British and in that other country celebrations were held in the streets as dead UK citizens had their naked bodies paraded around the streets and cheered by the populace I have to say that it would be hard not to retaliate in an unrestrained fashion. There are no double standards it is recognising that brutal murder and torture are not the same as resisting Israel and initiating brutal murder brings on retaliation. Well, the problems with that is the following: If Oct 7th Attacks by Hamas offer Israel a green-light to commit atrocities against all Gazans, even non-combatants and those who do not support Hamas then the opposite must also be true. That is Israel's ongoing aggressions in the West Bank and Gaza (many of which are illegal under international treaties that Israel agreed to) offer Hamas a green-light to target Israelis, even non-combatants and those who do not support Likud. I don't happen to think either of those is acceptable. Could you explain why it is that you, at least on the face of it, seem to think that one of them is? All The Best Well where are the Gazans who do not support Hamas, they may have been hiding in their houses but they were certainly not indulging in high profile this is not acceptable demonstrations, unlike many Jews and Israeli citizens who are quite open in their disagreement with their government and its actions. There is condemnation of the actions of Hamas (although it was celebrated even in the UK for several days afterwards) but is often qualified by condemnation of Israel for trying to root out Hamas. I have not said any is acceptable I am considering what any other country would do and I know what I would want my government to do and I am highlighting the fact that the left in general seem to have a jaundiced view of Israel that is not noticeable for any other country whose human rights record and democratic credentials are far worse. I used to be on the left I can remember the lauding of the PLO and I could never understand it. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 18, 2024 0:26:14 GMT
Well, the problems with that is the following: If Oct 7th Attacks by Hamas offer Israel a green-light to commit atrocities against all Gazans, even non-combatants and those who do not support Hamas then the opposite must also be true. That is Israel's ongoing aggressions in the West Bank and Gaza (many of which are illegal under international treaties that Israel agreed to) offer Hamas a green-light to target Israelis, even non-combatants and those who do not support Likud. I don't happen to think either of those is acceptable. Could you explain why it is that you, at least on the face of it, seem to think that one of them is? All The Best Well where are the Gazans who do not support Hamas, they may have been hiding in their houses but they were certainly not indulging in high profile this is not acceptable demonstrations, unlike many Jews and Israeli citizens who are quite open in their disagreement with their government and its actions. There is condemnation of the actions of Hamas (although it was celebrated even in the UK for several days afterwards) but is often qualified by condemnation of Israel for trying to root out Hamas. I have not said any is acceptable I am considering what any other country would do and I know what I would want my government to do and I am highlighting the fact that the left in general seem to have a jaundiced view of Israel that is not noticeable for any other country whose human rights record and democratic credentials are far worse. I used to be on the left I can remember the lauding of the PLO and I could never understand it. Well, Gazans who protest against Hamas likely end up dead. Don't forget that both Hamas and Israel have prevented Gazans from holding elections since Hamas came to power. Now I can understand why Hamas would do that, but why would Israel? Could that be because it serves Israel's (Netanyahu's) interests to have Hamas in power in Gaza? Also, don't forget that Israel, via Mossad, were instrumental in funding and facilitating early Hamas as a counter-force to the PLO/PA. Also, remember the PLO initially had a reasonable working relationship with Israel, they were seen as "moderate". That changed when Israel, following the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by a Zionist extremist, abandoned the Oslo Accords and became more belligerent toward Palestine/Gaza and stepped-up the West Bank illegal settlements. The PLO then had a choice, stand up to Israel in relation to illegal settlements and be considered a threat by Israel; or not stand up to Israel and be undermined by the fledgling Hamas. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 18, 2024 7:49:05 GMT
Well where are the Gazans who do not support Hamas, they may have been hiding in their houses but they were certainly not indulging in high profile this is not acceptable demonstrations, unlike many Jews and Israeli citizens who are quite open in their disagreement with their government and its actions. There is condemnation of the actions of Hamas (although it was celebrated even in the UK for several days afterwards) but is often qualified by condemnation of Israel for trying to root out Hamas. I have not said any is acceptable I am considering what any other country would do and I know what I would want my government to do and I am highlighting the fact that the left in general seem to have a jaundiced view of Israel that is not noticeable for any other country whose human rights record and democratic credentials are far worse. I used to be on the left I can remember the lauding of the PLO and I could never understand it. Well, Gazans who protest against Hamas likely end up dead. Don't forget that both Hamas and Israel have prevented Gazans from holding elections since Hamas came to power.
Now I can understand why Hamas would do that, but why would Israel?Could that be because it serves Israel's (Netanyahu's) interests to have Hamas in power in Gaza? Also, don't forget that Israel, via Mossad, were instrumental in funding and facilitating early Hamas as a counter-force to the PLO/PA. How would Israel have held elections inside Gaza? asking for a friend.. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 18, 2024 8:40:10 GMT
Well, Gazans who protest against Hamas likely end up dead. Don't forget that both Hamas and Israel have prevented Gazans from holding elections since Hamas came to power.
Now I can understand why Hamas would do that, but why would Israel?Could that be because it serves Israel's (Netanyahu's) interests to have Hamas in power in Gaza? Also, don't forget that Israel, via Mossad, were instrumental in funding and facilitating early Hamas as a counter-force to the PLO/PA. How would Israel have held elections inside Gaza? asking for a friend.. Israel and Hamas prevent the Palestinian Authority from holding elections within Gaza. Your friend must be really think if they couldn't work that out. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 18, 2024 8:48:54 GMT
How would Israel have held elections inside Gaza? asking for a friend.. Israel and Hamas prevent the Palestinian Authority from holding elections within Gaza. Your friend must be really think if they couldn't work that out. All The Best Hamas run Gaza - how could Israel make them have elections when they dont want to? - you are making no sense. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2024 18:52:04 GMT
There were no Israelis oppressing Gazans in Gaza on October 6th, were there? |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 18, 2024 20:50:11 GMT
Israel and Hamas prevent the Palestinian Authority from holding elections within Gaza. Your friend must be really think if they couldn't work that out. All The Best Hamas run Gaza - how could Israel make them have elections when they dont want to? - you are making no sense. No you are making no sense. I said Israel PREVENTS Palestine from holding elections in Gaza. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Mar 18, 2024 20:51:54 GMT
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 18, 2024 21:51:02 GMT
Hamas run Gaza - how could Israel make them have elections when they dont want to? - you are making no sense. No you are making no sense. I said Israel PREVENTS Palestine from holding elections in Gaza. All The Best Yes - you keep repeating this nonsense but continually refuse to explain how Israel would do this. I notice other members of the forum have already commented on your dishonest contributions. |
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