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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 12:07:53 GMT
From the blurb on the Muslim Memorial site linked above.
"Why were Indian troops involved in the two World Wars?
The short answer is they had no choice"
Lies. In both world wars the Indian Army was all-volunteer (unlike the British).
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Post by witchfinder on Mar 7, 2024 13:02:05 GMT
We have got to completely disregard out of hand any individual or group who used the excuse of "it may cause offence" to hide their bigotry.
If Jewish people died fighting the enemy in a British or Commonwealth uniform, then they fully deserve a Jewish War Memorial.
If Muslim people died fighting the enemy in a British or Commonwealth ( including Empire ) uniform, then they too fully deserve a Muslim War Memorial.
The point is that there are thousands of War Memorials in towns and villages all over the country, and almost all are Christian memorials, mostly depicting a Cross.
The numbers of Muslim soldiers who fought under the Union Flag in two World Wars surpasses over 1 million, and almost all were volunteers. Many Muslim soldiers lie in graves today in France, North Africa, the Far East and elsewhere.
Its about time that history was revised, and the contribution of the Indian Army in two World Wars was recognised for what they did, it was not all about America and Britain.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 7, 2024 14:00:32 GMT
We have got to completely disregard out of hand any individual or group who used the excuse of "it may cause offence" to hide their bigotry. If Jewish people died fighting the enemy in a British or Commonwealth uniform, then they fully deserve a Jewish War Memorial. If Muslim people died fighting the enemy in a British or Commonwealth ( including Empire ) uniform, then they too fully deserve a Muslim War Memorial. The point is that there are thousands of War Memorials in towns and villages all over the country, and almost all are Christian memorials, mostly depicting a Cross. The numbers of Muslim soldiers who fought under the Union Flag in two World Wars surpasses over 1 million, and almost all were volunteers. Many Muslim soldiers lie in graves today in France, North Africa, the Far East and elsewhere. Its about time that history was revised, and the contribution of the Indian Army in two World Wars was recognised for what they did, it was not all about America and Britain. So on that basis it would be just the ticket to have a memorial to the white soldiers who died defending King and Country after all many white people died and we should disregard out of hand anyone who says it may cause offence. As far as I am aware the Commonwealth war graves are neutral in terms of religion etc. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 7, 2024 14:07:45 GMT
linkSo the muslims - who have shown such disrespect for the existing war memorials are to be rewarded by having their own war memorial. WTF is going on. Apparently it was Sajid Javid who pushed for this memorial. He should have been told to fuck off. As Farage says the whole point of our war memorials is that they are for the people of "all faiths and none" who fought in the wars. Having a special one for the effing muslims is just going to stoke even further division and encourage "islamophobia" in the form of defacing the memorial. People are NOT going to like this. Also I seem to remember that, a few years ago, more muslims joined ISIS (the modern day n-a-z-i-s) than joined the British army. I think this shows where their loyalties are. I would certainly question the motives of ANY muslims who join the British army nowadays. We know that there are a large number of muslim terrorists who have come to the country sinve WWII - MI5 have over 30,000 on their files who need surveillance. This is just a misguided attempt by the Tories to answer charges of islamophobia - but it just makes them look weak and stupid. This should be quietly kicked into the long grass. I sat in front of the TV yesterday watching PMQ's waiting in exited anticipation (lol) for the chancellor to begin his budget. When he stood before the despatch box I thought right here we go, he then started banging on about bloody Muslims! I was totally confused. I looked across to Mrs R and said 'it is budget day'? Muslim war memorials! I couldn't believe what I was hearing. That has to be the weirdest start to any budget in the history of British politics. And yes it was of course nothing more than an embarrassing attempt to show Muslims that the Tories are not 'Islamophobic' it was an attempt to appease the most uncooperative most vociferous, most aggressive minority in this once great country. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 7, 2024 15:30:30 GMT
I'm glad you started a thread, I was about to when I saw this. This is a weird form of appeasement towards Sajid Javid, is it? Well, just a couple of questions. Is this for Muslims on any side of the wars, or just those that fought for Britain? How many Muslims fought for Britain in WW1 (serious question)? What about one for the Christians, Jews, Sikhs, agnostics and atheists? What difference will this memorial make except to stoke divisions? There is a war memorial to the Sikhs. It is on the roundabout at the junction of Jimmy Hill Way and Stoney Stanton Road in Coventry. |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 7, 2024 15:39:15 GMT
I'm glad you started a thread, I was about to when I saw this. This is a weird form of appeasement towards Sajid Javid, is it? Well, just a couple of questions. Is this for Muslims on any side of the wars, or just those that fought for Britain? How many Muslims fought for Britain in WW1 (serious question)? What about one for the Christians, Jews, Sikhs, agnostics and atheists? What difference will this memorial make except to stoke divisions? There is a war memorial to the Sikhs. It is on the roundabout at the junction of Jimmy Hill Way and Stoney Stanton Road in Coventry. There's also a Jewish war memorial in Willesden apparently: "Willesden Jewish Cemetery is proud to be the home of the UK’s first national Jewish War Memorial, which commemorates the Jewish servicemen and women, who died in the two world wars. It proudly resides on the lawn in front of the Heritage Centre." www.willesdenjewishcemetery.org.uk/news-listing/david-shilling-jcxk4-6528d#:~:text=Willesden%20Jewish%20Cemetery%20is%20proud,front%20of%20the%20Heritage%20Centre. |
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Post by ratcliff on Mar 7, 2024 15:42:41 GMT
I'm glad you started a thread, I was about to when I saw this. This is a weird form of appeasement towards Sajid Javid, is it? Well, just a couple of questions. Is this for Muslims on any side of the wars, or just those that fought for Britain? How many Muslims fought for Britain in WW1 (serious question)? What about one for the Christians, Jews, Sikhs, agnostics and atheists? What difference will this memorial make except to stoke divisions? There is a war memorial to the Sikhs. It is on the roundabout at the junction of Jimmy Hill Way and Stoney Stanton Road in Coventry. Did it cost £1m ? |
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Post by ratcliff on Mar 7, 2024 15:43:54 GMT
Can't see a £1m cost in that one either |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 7, 2024 15:45:17 GMT
Can't see a £1m cost in that one either So it's purely a cost issue for you rather than any kind of principle? |
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Post by Dogburger on Mar 7, 2024 16:00:14 GMT
Like all nations that fought in the wars they have memorials where the fighting took place .The Indian one is at Neuve-Chapelle . At the time the war graves commission asked families if any religious inscription was required on headstones .That was all that was asked or required at the time , prince or pauper ,Christian ,Jew ,Hindu or Mohamadan mattered not only that they were of the fallen
Other memorials have been built for the living to observe and respect the dead of the wars ,many a town has one for those from the area ,some Battalions have their own special ones .
So to the Muslims . Savid ,Sidique or whoever it was who proposed a Muslim memorial should be politely reminded that they already have one . Land was given by the British government to recognise the sacrifice of Indian Muslims to build London Central Mosque (regents park) ,a cultral centre was opened by King George VI in 1944 ,t the mosque wasn't completed until the 70's .
What are they saying then , that they want it twice ?
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Post by witchfinder on Mar 7, 2024 16:14:04 GMT
We have got to completely disregard out of hand any individual or group who used the excuse of "it may cause offence" to hide their bigotry. If Jewish people died fighting the enemy in a British or Commonwealth uniform, then they fully deserve a Jewish War Memorial. If Muslim people died fighting the enemy in a British or Commonwealth ( including Empire ) uniform, then they too fully deserve a Muslim War Memorial. The point is that there are thousands of War Memorials in towns and villages all over the country, and almost all are Christian memorials, mostly depicting a Cross. The numbers of Muslim soldiers who fought under the Union Flag in two World Wars surpasses over 1 million, and almost all were volunteers. Many Muslim soldiers lie in graves today in France, North Africa, the Far East and elsewhere. Its about time that history was revised, and the contribution of the Indian Army in two World Wars was recognised for what they did, it was not all about America and Britain. So on that basis it would be just the ticket to have a memorial to the white soldiers who died defending King and Country after all many white people died and we should disregard out of hand anyone who says it may cause offence. As far as I am aware the Commonwealth war graves are neutral in terms of religion etc. So, you have decided to alter what this topic is really all about, you want to change it from a topic about soldiers of different faiths, into a topic about soldiers of different colours ( or races ). ? The Commonwealth War Graves Commission IS neutral on faith, they are an organisation part funded by India The whole point here is virtualy all War Memorials in this country are specifically Christian, almost all have Christian emblems, mostly Crosses, the idea of the proposal is to provide recognition that it was not only Christians who fought and died in the two World Wars, seems fairly reasonable to me. WE already have specifically a War Memorial in this country for New Zealanders, and one for Australians, we also have one for Americans and near Brighton there is a War Memorial for Sikhs and Hindus. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 17:08:35 GMT
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission IS neutral on faith, they are an organisation part funded by India The whole point here is virtualy all War Memorials in this country are specifically Christian, almost all have Christian emblems, mostly Crosses, the idea of the proposal is to provide recognition that it was not only Christians who fought and died in the two World Wars, seems fairly reasonable to me. WE already have specifically a War Memorial in this country for New Zealanders, and one for Australians, we also have one for Americans and near Brighton there is a War Memorial for Sikhs and Hindus. It is true that India is one of the six countries that fund the CWGC, however they make the smallest contribution of the six. That said, the contributions are probably proportionate to the numbers of war dead from the six countries who are buried and/or memorialised by the CWGC at its facilities.
From the 2022/23 annual report:
India's 1% would include the Muslim dead as well.
A little personal anecdote here. Last summer I visited Ieper/Ypres with my brother and we attended the Last Post ceremony at the Menin Gate. The gate commemorates of all the soldiers who fell in the Ypres Salient who have no known grave. It was a specially moving moment for us since our grandfather is one of fallen whose name is inscribed on the gate, along with that of his brother, our great-uncle who also fell at Ypres.
The Menin Gate commemorates over 56,000 who fell and have no known grave. 400 of that 56,000 were Indian, athough the battles of 1st and 2nd Ypres were the ones in which Indian troops were most involved on the Western Front in the Great War.
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Post by patman post on Mar 7, 2024 17:08:58 GMT
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Post by jonksy on Mar 7, 2024 17:25:09 GMT
There is a war memorial to the Sikhs. It is on the roundabout at the junction of Jimmy Hill Way and Stoney Stanton Road in Coventry. Did it cost £1m ? Did it have planning permission? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 7, 2024 17:27:34 GMT
There is a war memorial to the Sikhs. It is on the roundabout at the junction of Jimmy Hill Way and Stoney Stanton Road in Coventry. Did it cost £1m ? Doubt it, but it was built in 2002. www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk/memorial/204827/Is your objection the cost? |
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