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Post by steppenwolf on Mar 7, 2024 8:20:59 GMT
linkSo the muslims - who have shown such disrespect for the existing war memorials are to be rewarded by having their own war memorial. WTF is going on. Apparently it was Sajid Javid who pushed for this memorial. He should have been told to fuck off. As Farage says the whole point of our war memorials is that they are for the people of "all faiths and none" who fought in the wars. Having a special one for the effing muslims is just going to stoke even further division and encourage "islamophobia" in the form of defacing the memorial. People are NOT going to like this. Also I seem to remember that, a few years ago, more muslims joined ISIS (the modern day n-a-z-i-s) than joined the British army. I think this shows where their loyalties are. I would certainly question the motives of ANY muslims who join the British army nowadays. We know that there are a large number of muslim terrorists who have come to the country sinve WWII - MI5 have over 30,000 on their files who need surveillance. This is just a misguided attempt by the Tories to answer charges of islamophobia - but it just makes them look weak and stupid. This should be quietly kicked into the long grass.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 7, 2024 8:49:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2024 10:12:31 GMT
linkSo the muslims - who have shown such disrespect for the existing war memorials are to be rewarded by having their own war memorial. WTF is going on. Apparently it was Sajid Javid who pushed for this memorial. He should have been told to fuck off. As Farage says the whole point of our war memorials is that they are for the people of "all faiths and none" who fought in the wars. Having a special one for the effing muslims is just going to stoke even further division and encourage "islamophobia" in the form of defacing the memorial. People are NOT going to like this. Also I seem to remember that, a few years ago, more muslims joined ISIS (the modern day n-a-z-i-s) than joined the British army. I think this shows where their loyalties are. I would certainly question the motives of ANY muslims who join the British army nowadays. We know that there are a large number of muslim terrorists who have come to the country sinve WWII - MI5 have over 30,000 on their files who need surveillance. This is just a misguided attempt by the Tories to answer charges of islamophobia - but it just makes them look weak and stupid. This should be quietly kicked into the long grass. I'm glad you started a thread, I was about to when I saw this. This is a weird form of appeasement towards Sajid Javid, is it? Well, just a couple of questions. Is this for Muslims on any side of the wars, or just those that fought for Britain? How many Muslims fought for Britain in WW1 (serious question)? What about one for the Christians, Jews, Sikhs, agnostics and atheists? What difference will this memorial make except to stoke divisions? |
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Post by Handyman on Mar 7, 2024 10:31:53 GMT
In WW1 according to the Net 885,000 Muslims fought on our side, 89,000 were killed, in WW2 5.5 million fought against Hitler 1.5 million were killed, Hitler had a SS Regiment of Muslims fighting for him, the Mad Mullah allegedly pleaded with Hitler to send him the Jews and he would burn them all.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 10:35:16 GMT
"How many Muslims fought for Britain in WW1 (serious question)?"
There would have been quite a few in the Indian Army, although only a couple of divisions fought (briefly) on the Western Front. The original plan was for fourteen infantry divisions to be put into action but that plan was abandoned when it became apparent that Indian soldiers did not acclimatise very well to conditions in NW Europe.
There were also Muslims in the Indian Labour Corps but they didn't actually fight as such.
You may recall during the notorious Question Time episode involving Nick Griffin. Griffin made some injudicious remark about ethnic participation in both world wars, at which Jack Straw got on his hind legs and, in seeking to demolish Griffin and claim kudos from the audience, mentioned a war memorial in the north of France on which the majority of names were Muslim who had fallen fighting for King and Country.
I was very curious about this, since it seemed ahistorical, so I looked up the site on the CWGC website. It turns out that Straw was correct, a majority of the 300-or-so names on this particular memorial (one of thousands of such sites on the Western Front) were obviously Muslim. But they weren't fighting; they were labourers employed by the Indian Labour Corps usually employed far behind the front lines, who were more likely to have succumbed to disease than killed by enemy action.
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 10:37:14 GMT
In WW1 according to the Net 885,000 Muslims fought on our side, 89,000 were killed, in WW2 5.5 million fought against Hitler 1.5 million were killed, Hitler had a SS Regiment of Muslims fighting for him, the Mad Mullah allegedly pleaded with Hitler to send him the Jews and he would burn them all. You need to be very cautious about sites that quote such ludicrous numbers.
Where did the 5.5 million Muslims fight against Hitler?
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Post by Handyman on Mar 7, 2024 10:39:53 GMT
In WW1 according to the Net 885,000 Muslims fought on our side, 89,000 were killed, in WW2 5.5 million fought against Hitler 1.5 million were killed, Hitler had a SS Regiment of Muslims fighting for him, the Mad Mullah allegedly pleaded with Hitler to send him the Jews and he would burn them all. You need to be very cautious about sites that quote such ludicrous numbers.
Where did the 5.5 million Muslims fight against Hitler?
I am aware of that thank you hence I stated the Net, but if you know any better and think it is wrong then perhaps you can provide a more reliable source |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2024 10:39:58 GMT
Apparently 384,000 British soldiers were killed in WW2 so where figures of 1.5 million came from, I'm not sure. Obviously not on the Western fronts.
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Post by Handyman on Mar 7, 2024 10:45:57 GMT
Apparently 384,000 British soldiers were killed in WW2 so where figures of 1.5 million came from, I'm not sure. Obviously not on the Western fronts. According to World War 2 Casualties World War 2 Facts approximately 15,000000 Allied Military personnel were killed in WW2 |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 10:52:17 GMT
There were no Indian soldiers on the Western Front in WW2. A couple of infantry divisions in North Africa and later Italy as part of the 8th Army but that would be it. Handyman: The best sources I am aware of, one which lists the Order of Battle down to battalion/squadron/vessel level for every major campaign in both world wars are: The World War I Databook: The essential Facts and Figures for all the Combatants ISBN 1854107666 The World War II Databook: The essential Facts and Figures for all the Combatants ISBN 1854102540 Both by John Ellis & Michael Cox, published by Aurum Press. Above all, steer well clear of any source written by an ethnic author with an axe to grind. |
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Post by Handyman on Mar 7, 2024 11:02:53 GMT
There were no Indian soldiers on the Western Front in WW2. A couple of infantry divisions in North Africa and later Italy as part of the 8th Army but that would be it. Handyman : The best sources I am aware of, one which lists the Order of Battle down to battalion/squadron/vessel level for every major campaign in both world wars are: The World War I Databook: The essential Facts and Figures for all the Combatants ISBN 1854107666 The World War II Databook: The essential Facts and Figures for all the Combatants ISBN 1854102540 Both by John Ellis & Michael Cox, published by Aurum Press. Above all, steer well clear of any source written by an ethnic author with an axe to grind. Thank You |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 11:04:21 GMT
Apparently 384,000 British soldiers were killed in WW2 so where figures of 1.5 million came from, I'm not sure. Obviously not on the Western fronts. According to World War 2 Casualties World War 2 Facts approximately 15,000000 Allied Military personnel were killed in WW2 You'd need to include the USSR (11 million killed and missing) to come even close to that figure. Probably China also (1.4 million)
For the Western allies:
USA 405,000 UK 306,000 France 122,000
Can-Aus-NZ-ZA 80,000
[India 36,100]
Source: as above.
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Post by Handyman on Mar 7, 2024 11:06:17 GMT
According to World War 2 Casualties World War 2 Facts approximately 15,000000 Allied Military personnel were killed in WW2 You'd need to include the USSR (11 million killed and missing) to come even close to that figure. Probably China also (1.4 million)
For the Western allies:
USA 405,000 UK 306,000 France 122,000
Can-Aus-NZ-ZA 80,000
[India 36,100]
Source: as above.
Thank You again, if I recall correctly the Civilian Casualties were even larger |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 7, 2024 11:07:47 GMT
In WW1 according to the Net 885,000 Muslims fought on our side, 89,000 were killed, in WW2 5.5 million fought against Hitler 1.5 million were killed, Hitler had a SS Regiment of Muslims fighting for him, the Mad Mullah allegedly pleaded with Hitler to send him the Jews and he would burn them all. You need to be very cautious about sites that quote such ludicrous numbers.
Where did the 5.5 million Muslims fight against Hitler?
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Post by Hutchyns on Mar 7, 2024 12:02:12 GMT
steppenwolf I probably disagree with 90% of what Hunt indicated he intends spending taxpayers money on. But I'd make some wider observations rather than squabbling about the numbers of Muslims killed in the wars, in fact on that basis the Leyton Orient Somme Memorial needs to go for a start even if they did lose a disproportionate number of players in that battle compared to the losses of other clubs during the conflict ...... the free space might by used to erect the Muslim Memorial instead, as I think they easily win if number of fallen is the preferred criteria. But back to my wider point, and maybe we need to resurrect a few old British values which we used to respect ...for instance it's privately owned land, owned by the British Legion, and when the National Memorial Arboretum was in the process of being created many thousands of British people donated based on their agreement with the founding principles, and to have taken their money then, without indicating that some years down the line you'd be playing politics with the place is decidedly un-British. We're told in this thread that allowing a Memorial to the dead Muslim soldiers will stoke divisions ! Well to borrow some of steppenwolfs language why weren't those proposing the Memorial to the Association of Jewish Ex Servicemen & Women told to fuck off ? Wouldn't a 'special one' for the effing Jews annoy Muslims and stoke divisions ? ..... add to that what the hell were the Legion thinking when they agreed to the Stillbirth Neonatal Death Charity Memorial ..... I ask you, the effing Stillbirths ? none of those buggers fought in the war did they ? Criticise the Government all you like, poke your nose into and criticise the decision of the British Legion all you want ..... but in the end it just boils down to trying to prevent the commemoration of one particular group's War dead within the grounds of the National Memorial Arboretum ...and note it isn't titled a War Memorial Arboretum. But finally, to offer a crumb of comfort to those opposed to the Memorial ...... scroll toward the bottom of the particular page of the World Wars Muslim Memorial website I link to here, and you'll see that it's design has been placed into the hands of architect Benedict O'Looney !! ...... so it might fall down of its own accord after a fortnight if you're lucky  |
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