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Post by Fairsociety on Feb 12, 2024 18:22:48 GMT
The problem Starmer has is that Labour have always polled rather well amongst both Muslims and Jews. But it is very difficult to do that now with the situation in the middle east galvanising both to hate or mistrust each other. The scenes we saw on October 7th in Israel, and the scenes in Gaza since then have galvanised both in partisan ways. Treading a path that is acceptable to both sides is extremely difficult. When Labour supported the oppressed Palestinians they mostly had the Muslim vote in the bag, but Corbyn's previous associations with Hamas - real or exaggerated - and the highly effective weaponization and hugely exaggerated extent of perceived antisemitism put off many Jews. Though it is notable that the instant Starmer became leader this weaponization immediately stopped. Now that Labour is led by someone who went along with the demonisation, has a Jewish wife (nothing at all wrong with that but bad actors amongst the Muslim community would use that against him) and leads a party highly sympathetic to Israel in spite of it having a far right government, and is crucially mostly silent about the oppression of the Palestinians, many Muslims are deserting Labour. With extremist opinions widespread on both sides, it is difficult to see how Labour can keep both on side. And Labour's support for Israel will of course be exploited by bad actors like Galloway, whose ideological dishonesty in pursuit of his own agenda is clearly signposted by his support for economically left wing ideas being combined with support for right wing conservative social nostrums put about by Islamists. You will for example often hear Galloway decrying grotesque levels of economic inequality yet having little to say very often about women's rights or gay rights, or social liberalism. He is clearly trying to latch on to the Muslim vote which Labour is losing, choosing constituencies with large numbers of Muslims to challenge Labour in. He is unlikely to win but he clearly hopes to damage Labour and thus be seen to be furthering his own cause and that of Muslims. He aims to build a political fan base built upon socialism and islamism in uneasy combination, grafting the support of Muslims on to support from left wingers. In this way he plans to do a Farage on the left, building a coalition of support that can ultimately wag the establishment dog and drag it in his direction. He is unlikely to succeed in my view both because Muslims themselves are still a relatively small minority of the overall population and he is unlikely to persuade even all of these, and also because he lacks what Farage often enjoyed, which is widespread support amongst influential sections of the media. But there are pockets in certain areas of high density population like in the big cities, where Muslims make up a large chunk of the local electorate, and he clearly hopes that in one of these he can cause an upset by actually winning and thereby entering parliament. And gaining massive publicity for his favourite cause, the promotion of the perceived importance of himself. This is what happens when you try to run with the foxes and the hounds, one day you will have to choose, it couldn't have fallen at a worse time for Labour because it's put them right on the spot, damned if they do and damned if they don't.
It's make your mind up time for Starmer, and it isn't looking good for him, typically the Tories have never put themselves in the pockets of ethnic voters, promising them this, that and the other for their votes, but now we can clearly see the dangers of what happens when a political party gets themselves in that predicament, just ask Labour.
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Post by jonksy on Feb 12, 2024 20:03:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2024 20:04:27 GMT
I've just heard Labour have removed their support for this candidate, Azhar Ali Will look for confirmation.
EDIT: Just seen Jonksy's post above which confirms it.
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Post by dappy on Feb 12, 2024 20:23:10 GMT
Makes it a very odd election. With the Green candidate also disowned by his party, that makes six independents, a sex pest, a candidate from the deeply unpopular Tories, a frankly irrelevant Lib Dem, a Monster Raving and George Galloway. Not sure if anyone has the power but better perhaps to abandon and start again.
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 12, 2024 20:24:29 GMT
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 12, 2024 20:29:27 GMT
Makes it a very odd election. With the Green candidate also disowned by his party, that makes six independents, a sex pest, a candidate from the deeply unpopular Tories, a frankly irrelevant Lib Dem, a Monster Raving and George Galloway. Not sure if anyone has the power but better perhaps to abandon and start again. There a huge banner in a Muslim area outside Rochdale centre . On main Rochdale Road from Galloway That says for Muslims and Gaza .don't think any one raised any Complates yet.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2024 20:40:14 GMT
Makes it a very odd election. With the Green candidate also disowned by his party, that makes six independents, a sex pest, a candidate from the deeply unpopular Tories, a frankly irrelevant Lib Dem, a Monster Raving and George Galloway. Not sure if anyone has the power but better perhaps to abandon and start again. Too late to abandon the by election. I can now see Galloway doing really well, even winning.
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Post by patman post on Feb 12, 2024 20:56:51 GMT
I’ve heard similar and worse comments to those of Mr Ali from a surprising number of people, which leads me to think that the country’s not sufficiently freed itself from loud-mouth BNP-type xenophobia.
Good that Labour has reacted…
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 12, 2024 21:13:45 GMT
Makes it a very odd election. With the Green candidate also disowned by his party, that makes six independents, a sex pest, a candidate from the deeply unpopular Tories, a frankly irrelevant Lib Dem, a Monster Raving and George Galloway. Not sure if anyone has the power but better perhaps to abandon and start again. Too late to abandon the by election. I can now see Galloway doing really well, even winning. Hope not very scary if he does. Even doe Rochdale is a large Muslim town the Marjority are still. White British has proven in the 2005 Election and the Brexit vote.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2024 21:16:50 GMT
Galloway has been a member of Parliament for 5 years and 3 years previously and the sky didn't fall in. He can talk quite good sense. It's his allegiances which are suspect.
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 12, 2024 21:22:00 GMT
Galloway has been a member of Parliament for 5 years and 3 years previously and the sky didn't fall in. He can talk quite good sense. It's his allegiances which are suspect. Galloway is a extreme far. Lefty even many on the far left distance from him He's a dangerous Crack.pot .
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Post by dappy on Feb 12, 2024 21:23:33 GMT
I’ve heard similar and worse comments to those of Mr Ali from a surprising number of people, which leads me to think that the country’s not sufficiently freed itself from loud-mouth BNP-type xenophobia. Good that Labour has reacted… I have to be honest, Patman , I do find it very very strange that Israeli intelligence didn’t pick up knowledge of such a large attack in the making. Normally I always favour cockup over conspiracy but honestly this doesn’t smell right.
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Post by witchfinder on Feb 12, 2024 21:39:10 GMT
Absolutely no blame what so ever can be put on either Keir Starmer or the Labour Party, the only person to blame is the candidate himself "Azhar Ali".
There may, or may not be some truth in Azhar Ali's claims, was he taken in by what may have been a Conspiracy Theory WHICH WAS floating around, there is no doubt about that.
The candidate should not have repeated or espoused the story which had been floating around, he did not have the common sense or foresight to Fact Check the story, he was a fool.
What angers me is that the term "Anti Semitism" has been raised in this story, yet Azher Ali has not said anything that could even remotely classed as been Anti Semetic.
The term Anti Semetic DOES NOT mean to be Anti Israel, Anti the Israeli government or Anti the Israeli Defence Forces.
Anti Semetic specifically and exclusively means Anti Jewish, and I wish that people and politicians would stop been dishonest, and refrain from calling someone anti semitic, when they are not.
It is on record that Mr Ali has always spoken out against anti semetism, and has campaigned against anti semetism, and any politician who attempts to tar the candidate with anti semetism is attempting to make political gain in a very dishonest way.
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 12, 2024 21:57:21 GMT
Absolutely no blame what so ever can be put on either Keir Starmer or the Labour Party, the only person to blame is the candidate himself "Azhar Ali". There may, or may not be some truth in Azhar Ali's claims, was he taken in by what may have been a Conspiracy Theory WHICH WAS floating around, there is no doubt about that. The candidate should not have repeated or espoused the story which had been floating around, he did not have the common sense or foresight to Fact Check the story, he was a fool. What angers me is that the term "Anti Semitism" has been raised in this story, yet Azher Ali has not said anything that could even remotely classed as been Anti Semetic. The term Anti Semetic DOES NOT mean to be Anti Israel, Anti the Israeli government or Anti the Israeli Defence Forces. Anti Semetic specifically and exclusively means Anti Jewish, and I wish that people and politicians would stop been dishonest, and refrain from calling someone anti semitic, when they are not. It is on record that Mr Ali has always spoken out against anti semetism, and has campaigned against anti semetism, and any politician who attempts to tar the candidate with anti semetism is attempting to make political gain in a very dishonest way. Like you said he should of Kept his mouth shut think he did it for his own personal. Reasons. He might say one thing in public but say Something in.is private life . Not sure if it was at a Muslim meeting he made the commentd but if it was obviously someone there didn't agree and released the tape. Well done that person.
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Post by buccaneer on Feb 12, 2024 22:01:07 GMT
For only 6.5% of the population the Muslim vote seems to be very important to people and parties whose core values and based around identity politic. That being said, the Labour party has quite rightly distanced itself from this Muslim conspiracy theorist and they know this will be damaging, and you can bet they were reluctant to withdraw support for this candidate. Is this the beginning of the end of Labour's love affair with the Muslim vote? As the 6.5% of the Muslim population steadily grows in time, and with Muslims falling out of love with a pandering Labour party I think it is safe to expect a Muslim campaign to get independent Muslim candidates to run in the future. www.middleeasteye.net/news/labour-30000-dead-gazans-too-late-muslim-campaign-aims-disrupt-british-politicsPro-Palestine, pro-Muslim, pro-Islam. Let's hope in generations to come the population of this nation isn't so, that the Islamic Republic of Great Britain comes to fruition.
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