|
Post by dappy on Feb 11, 2024 11:21:49 GMT
You are absolutely right Vinny that John Major gets much credit for his role in achieving peace in N I too. Arguably it’s his crowning glory too.
But for you and Thomas to put your prejudices ahead of historical reality that Blair paid a leading role is frankly ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Feb 11, 2024 11:39:22 GMT
Peace in Northern Ireland is the work of Michael Oatley, and also the people of Northern Ireland who grew sick of terrorists from both sides being twats, and sick of the British Army too.
Blair simply came along and took credit for other people's work.
|
|
|
Post by dappy on Feb 11, 2024 13:54:03 GMT
You are fantasizing again Vinny. Peace in NI was the result of lots of peoples work. Blair was integral to the process. Right man right time right place on this issue.
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Feb 11, 2024 14:54:49 GMT
On the Runs scheme 'damaged integrity of criminal justice
The integrity of the criminal justice system has been damaged by the controversial On the Runs scheme, a parliamentary watchdog has said. The Northern Ireland Affairs committee said the "one-sided, secretive scheme of letters" sent to over 180 Irish republicans should never have existed. It came to light when one letter caused the Hyde Park bomb trial to collapse.
The On The Runs (OTRs) were republicans suspected of involvement in terrorist crimes but who had never been charged. The scheme involved the provision of so-called "comfort letters" by the government designed to give them assurances that they were not being sought by police. One of those who held a letter was John Downey who had been accused of the murders of four soldiers in the IRA Hyde Park bomb in 1982.
The report published on Tuesday said the people of Northern Ireland had been "kept in the dark to the greatest possible extent". It said the lawfulness of such letters was questionable.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32020826
What is it, you can't read your own link or your numeracy can't even cope with the number 'one'? Maybe it's both
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Feb 11, 2024 14:59:46 GMT
You are fantasizing again Vinny. Peace in NI was the result of lots of peoples work. Blair was integral to the process. Right man right time right place on this issue. Exactly. Vinny is right that Major played a pivotal role (a) in not being 'shoot to kill' Thatcher and (b) in making that key 'we don't have to have NI' pronouncement. But it took a lot of work by Mo Mowlam gaining the trust of both sides, remarkable and brave concessions by Paisley and McGuiness and still needed the charisma, leadership and frankly brilliant decision making of Blair to get it done. There's much to criticise Blair for but he deserves no small credit for his role in the GFA
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Feb 11, 2024 18:44:45 GMT
On the Runs scheme 'damaged integrity of criminal justice
The integrity of the criminal justice system has been damaged by the controversial On the Runs scheme, a parliamentary watchdog has said. The Northern Ireland Affairs committee said the "one-sided, secretive scheme of letters" sent to over 180 Irish republicans should never have existed. It came to light when one letter caused the Hyde Park bomb trial to collapse.
The On The Runs (OTRs) were republicans suspected of involvement in terrorist crimes but who had never been charged. The scheme involved the provision of so-called "comfort letters" by the government designed to give them assurances that they were not being sought by police. One of those who held a letter was John Downey who had been accused of the murders of four soldiers in the IRA Hyde Park bomb in 1982.
The report published on Tuesday said the people of Northern Ireland had been "kept in the dark to the greatest possible extent". It said the lawfulness of such letters was questionable.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32020826
What is it, you can't read your own link or your numeracy can't even cope with the number 'one'? Maybe it's both whats the matter Steve. Has someone on this forum upset you? you seem to be positively bitter , almost dripping poison whenever you post on here. I think there should be a general amnesty , for this soldier , and all the suspects , accused and previously convicted regarding the northern Irish troubles. Then compensation should be awarded by the British government , and apologies all round for a century of partition , the failed experiment of the sectarian apartheid state , and an offer of a border poll as a sweetener , and in recognition of unionism losing Stormont in 2017 , for the first time , and Michelle o Neil becoming first minister. If the norther Irish vote leave , then all good , the uk saves 12 billion per annum on running costs for the province , the headache of the Frankenstein monster they created in 1920 , and you can offer the loyalist refugees residency in Finchley , as we are told Northern Ireland is as British as Finchley. If they vote stay , then that is on the proviso they are voting to completely leave the EU , no half way house , same as the rest of us , and can have the next vote in 7 years time if its not to their liking. No more throwing old men under a bus for events that happened half a century ago. I think it sounds great. Helps save face with Tony Blairs wee blunders , rectify an ancient wrong , saves loads money , and deals with the EU problem for good. What do you fink?
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Feb 11, 2024 18:47:24 GMT
But for you and Thomas to put your prejudices ahead of historical reality that Blair paid a leading role is frankly ridiculous. what prejudice is that then dappy? Tony Blair is universally dislike across the uk and in the northern Irish province. He is universally disliked , along with labour in general , among the uk armed forces. Thats not prejudice ,that's fact.
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Feb 11, 2024 20:50:12 GMT
What is it, you can't read your own link or your numeracy can't even cope with the number 'one'? Maybe it's both whats the matter Steve. Has someone on this forum upset you? you seem to be positively bitter , almost dripping poison whenever you post on here. . . Don't play the faux innocent, you started it. See your post 'yesterday at 3:31pm'
|
|
|
Post by dappy on Feb 11, 2024 21:09:33 GMT
But for you and Thomas to put your prejudices ahead of historical reality that Blair paid a leading role is frankly ridiculous. what prejudice is that then dappy? Tony Blair is universally dislike across the uk and in the northern Irish province. He is universally disliked , along with labour in general , among the uk armed forces. Thats not prejudice ,that's fact. Not sure you understand what the word "universally" means. Whether Blair is liked or not is irrelevant to whether he played a major part in achieving peace in NI.
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Feb 12, 2024 8:37:37 GMT
whats the matter Steve. Has someone on this forum upset you? you seem to be positively bitter , almost dripping poison whenever you post on here. . . Don't play the faux innocent, you started it. See your post 'yesterday at 3:31pm' dont you play the gullible fool. I started the thread , and I stand by what ive written throughout the thread. selective justice depending on what's politically expedient.
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Feb 12, 2024 8:39:44 GMT
what prejudice is that then dappy? Tony Blair is universally dislike across the uk and in the northern Irish province. He is universally disliked , along with labour in general , among the uk armed forces. Thats not prejudice ,that's fact. Whether Blair is liked or not is irrelevant to whether he played a major part in achieving peace in NI. What did Blair personally do? My point about the universal dislike of Blair outside of the labour parties blairite bubble must mean there is a helluva lot of prejudiced people against Blair. I wonder why that could be?
|
|
|
Post by Steve on Feb 12, 2024 11:02:54 GMT
Don't play the faux innocent, you started it. See your post 'yesterday at 3:31pm' dont you play the gullible fool. I started the thread , and I stand by what ive written throughout the thread. selective justice depending on what's politically expedient. You started the thread and you started the toxic abuse as soon as you realise you'd been caught out posting trash.
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Feb 12, 2024 13:14:13 GMT
You are fantasizing again Vinny. Peace in NI was the result of lots of peoples work. Blair was integral to the process. Right man right time right place on this issue. Blair simply took the credit for lots of other people's work including John Major's and John Major to an extent took the credit for the work of Michael Oatley, who had acted initially on his own volition, without authorisation from Downing Street. His claim to the IRA, that he did have permission, was a lie, but it got them talking.
|
|
|
Post by dappy on Feb 12, 2024 14:00:25 GMT
As we have said Vinny, many people, including those you mention, take great credit in their part in achieving peace in Northern Ireland. For your own political reasons, you seem to wish to play down Blair's role in achieving that peace. While it is absolutely true that he could not possibly achieved it on his own, it is also historical reality that he played a major part himself in making it happen. In fact regardless of your views on other aspects of his tenure in No10, I think it is pretty clear that peace would not have been achieved without him. Sometimes you get a lucky match of a PM skills to a key problem at the time, sometimes you don't. Blair was an outstanding communicator and persuader - a politician with different skills would not have achieved what he did iN NI. Blair was the right man at the right time for that issue. Johnson for example was also an outstanding communicator but when Covid struck it needed a details man confident in setting a path and making clear decisions - he wasn't the right man at the right time.
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Feb 12, 2024 14:21:33 GMT
One of the crucial mistakes Blair did, was drop any demand for the IRA to disarm. And it cost Lyra McKee her life.
|
|