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Post by thomas on Feb 10, 2024 16:59:54 GMT
It doesn't matter if downey was put on trial for another alleged crime. The original trial collapsed when Tony Blairs letter was produced. That is a fact. You can stand there all day waffling with your fingers in your ears all you like , the point is , justice must be seen to be fair and equal for all or none at all. Clearly in the various troubles legacy cases , this isnt the case. Look you posted 'There were approx 200 different individuals who got the Tony Blair get out of jail free card'It wasn't true, prove it? |
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Post by Steve on Feb 10, 2024 17:13:28 GMT
I already did
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Post by thomas on Feb 10, 2024 17:14:09 GMT
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Post by Vinny on Feb 10, 2024 18:13:08 GMT
Look, you know how I feel about murderers.
Every walk of life has their scum, even the army.
And I still strongly believe that someone got away with multiple murders at Deepcut.
I digress.
Anyone who uses the uniform as a licence to murder, rather than a duty to defend, is a disgrace to the uniform and deserves prosecution.
Time should not be a shield.
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Post by thomas on Feb 10, 2024 18:33:49 GMT
Look, you know how I feel about murderers. Every walk of life has their scum, even the army. And I still strongly believe that someone got away with multiple murders at Deepcut. I digress. Anyone who uses the uniform as a licence to murder, rather than a duty to defend, is a disgrace to the uniform and deserves prosecution. Time should not be a shield. its not the point that is being made though Vinny. The point that is being made is the fact Tony Blairs disastrous interference and legacy regarding criminal justice in northern ireland and the troubles has lead to people either walking free from crimes they allegedly committed , to causing havoc with prosecutors trying to charge these people . Im with you. Justice should apply equally to all. Tony Blair though clearly fucked that sentiment up . A letter from Tony Blair shouldn't be a shield against justice , but clearly it was though for John Downey regarding the murder of four men in Hyde Park. Now every subsequent case and issue regarding the troubles will be left tainted because of that wretch of a mans legacy. The damage was done in 1920 when the British government subsequently partitioned Northern Ireland from the rest out of nothing more than sheer spite. As I said earlier in the thread , all these people have been caught up one way or the other in nothing more than the London elites ruinous exit strategy of partition simply because they couldn't accept democracy when a country no longer wished to be part of their empire. All those poor bastards lives ended , wasted , or ruined . Not to mention the sheer terror and stress of young men sent to serve tours in the province....and for what? It should be the British government past and present that is standing in the dock for crimes against humanity. |
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Post by dappy on Feb 10, 2024 20:24:47 GMT
The “wretch of a man” delivered peace in Northern Ireland. A crowning achievement for him and so many others from many different political traditions.
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Post by thomas on Feb 10, 2024 20:41:31 GMT
The “wretch of a man” delivered peace in Northern Ireland. A crowning achievement for him and so many others from many different political traditions. No he didnt. His government was involved , along with the Americans , the Irish and the europeans who backed up their efforts with cash to help the northern Irish. Blair tried to take the credit for others hard work , while the places where he did get directly involved , like the get out of jail free letters , proved to be a fucking disaster of the highest magnitude. |
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Post by dappy on Feb 10, 2024 21:55:51 GMT
You don't think Blair played a major part in delivering peace in Northern Ireland?
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Post by thomas on Feb 11, 2024 8:32:24 GMT
You don't think Blair played a major part in delivering peace in Northern Ireland? No. Mo Mowlam surely from the brit side? Trimble has to take a lot of credit as well for which he was given the Nobel peace prize. I think the trouble for you new labour supporters is you have the uncanny ability to try and canonise everything Blair was involved in , however trivial , while failing to recognise the vast amount of mistakes and the disastrous legacy he left behind. Blair was simply an opportunist , in the right place at the right time, who took advantage of the work kinnock and smith did for labour , then promptly went on to lose labour something like four million voters , over his disasterous premiership. UK politics , and the Labour Party , have never really recovered from that mans time in power. |
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Post by Steve on Feb 11, 2024 9:59:39 GMT
When I showed you that it didn't stop Downey being extradited and put on trial again for different murders And just read the Hallett inquiry on the point: '2.3 The administrative scheme did not amount to an amnesty for terrorists. Suspected terrorists were not handed a ‘get out of jail free card’. |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 11, 2024 10:02:38 GMT
You don't think Blair played a major part in delivering peace in Northern Ireland? You're having a laugh. The Northern Ireland peace process began whilst John Major was in power. The true credit should be given to Michael Oatley, former spy, who on his own initiative talked with Martin McGuinness in 1991. As a result of Oatley's actions dialogue resumed leading to the Downing Street Declaration of December 1993.
Blair simply took the credit.
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Post by thomas on Feb 11, 2024 10:07:10 GMT
When I showed you that it didn't stop Downey being extradited and put on trial again for different murders And just read the Hallett inquiry on the point: '2.3 The administrative scheme did not amount to an amnesty for terrorists. Suspected terrorists were not handed a ‘get out of jail free card’.Downeys trial over The Hyde park bombing collapsed because of Tony Blairs get out of jail free card. Yes or no? It doesn't matter if he was subsequently put on trial for other offences.Thats a diversion . The Cameron government after the fury of people finding out what Blair had done subsequently told all the republicans that their letters were legally worthless , and if evidence came to light , they would be tried in court. My point once again , if downey got a get out of jail free card for The Hyde park bombing , why cant this soldier? In 2013, John Downey was charged with murdering four Royal Household Cavalrymen in a bomb in London’s Hyde Park in 1982.
He stood trial at the Old Bailey, but the case dramatically collapsed after it was revealed he had received a written assurance from former prime minister Tony Blair’s government that he was not actively wanted by the authorities.
The letter was issued under the terms of the controversial On The Runs (OTRs) scheme.
Trial judge Mr Justice Sweeney ruled that Mr Downey’s arrest at Gatwick Airport, as he transited the UK on the way to a holiday, represented an abuse of process and he put a stay on any future prosecution in relation to the Hyde Park case.
The episode sparked a government inquiry into the OTRs scheme. |
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Post by Steve on Feb 11, 2024 10:14:26 GMT
No you lied your sorry arse off pretending they all got pardons and then dug your heels in. FFS it's been known for over 10 years that they weren't but maybe some skulls are so thick it takes decades to get through.
Downey should not have been let off, it was a judicial error. That is no excuse to let any other murderer off and the crime in question seems to be a callous killing of someone just for their religion. If this soldier is guilty they key should be thrown away and it needs a trial to determine if he is.
That you so so wish for no trial betrays that you think he is guilty and you have a deranged belief there was nothing wrong with random killings of catholics just for being catholic.
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Post by thomas on Feb 11, 2024 10:28:09 GMT
No you lied your sorry arse off pretending they all got pardons and then dug your heels in. FFS it's been known for over 10 years that they weren't but maybe some skulls are so thick it takes decades to get through. Downey should not have been let off, it was a judicial error. That is no excuse to let any other murderer off and the crime in question seems to be a callous killing of someone just for their religion. If this soldier is guilty they key should be thrown away and it needs a trial to determine if he is. That you so so wish for no trial betrays that you think he is guilty and you have a deranged belief there was nothing wrong with random killings of catholics just for being catholic. I haven't lied about anything. I didnt go through all approx 200 individuals , case by case , but I read enough to see that Blairs controversial on the run scheme and subsequent get out of jail free letter for people like John Downey caused absolute havoc in the criminal justice system , where before , if someone was a suspect , and enough evidence garnered , they were put on trial. After Blairs scheme , all of a sudden justice became selective , which is my point. John Downey did for The Hyde Park bombing. If you think this is untrue , please provide the evidence of John Downeys Hyde Park conviction in a criminal court. Over to you? Thank god we have you here to direct us mere mortals regarding the rights and wrongs of the justice system and the troubles. bollocks. They tried to throw psni under a bus to save the British governments face. Im told all the time on here by you British Britain is a country , and Britain has a British law system , and British police , but now we are expected to believe one part of the uk in Northern Ireland failed to tell John Downey that another part of the uk in englandshire wanted him in connection with The Hyde Park bombing , so he had to be let off because the paddy police made an error? The root cause of course was Tony Blairs get out of jail free letter , of which he was grilled in parliament over ,and did his usual of apologising for sending these letters out while claiming they were necessary in his opinion. He undermined the whole criminal justice system. see my post to Vinny , and subsequent posts through this thread. You can't have selective justice , and Blair fatally undermined justice being served equally to accused individuals with his OTR get out of jail free cards. so should John Downey over Hyde Park.....but he wasn't because of Tony Blair.. and you had the cheek to call me a liar..... |
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Post by thomas on Feb 11, 2024 10:41:44 GMT
On the Runs scheme 'damaged integrity of criminal justice
The integrity of the criminal justice system has been damaged by the controversial On the Runs scheme, a parliamentary watchdog has said.
The Northern Ireland Affairs committee said the "one-sided, secretive scheme of letters" sent to over 180 Irish republicans should never have existed.
It came to light when one letter caused the Hyde Park bomb trial to collapse.
The On The Runs (OTRs) were republicans suspected of involvement in terrorist crimes but who had never been charged.
The scheme involved the provision of so-called "comfort letters" by the government designed to give them assurances that they were not being sought by police.
One of those who held a letter was John Downey who had been accused of the murders of four soldiers in the IRA Hyde Park bomb in 1982.
The report published on Tuesday said the people of Northern Ireland had been "kept in the dark to the greatest possible extent".
It said the lawfulness of such letters was questionable.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32020826
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