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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 3, 2024 8:31:15 GMT
Isn't the whole problem that the asylum seeker interviews (if they even still do interviews rather than just simple questionnaires) are meant to be non-confrontational according to the Civil Service guidelines - in other words the presumption is that the asylum seeker is telling the truth. Which is crazy. Anyone who has every lived in muslim countries knows that their culture is NOT to tell the truth. That's part of the Western culture, not the Eastern culture, where it's often normal to tell people what you think they want to hear - sometimes out of "politeness".
I used to live in the UAE and I remember reading a very good article which covered this complete difference in culture. It described an encounter between two Arabs who were meeting to negotiate the sale/purchase of a camel. The two Arabs talked for several hour, during which time the camel was never mentioned - and during which time not a word that either said was true. If you've ever lived there you'll instantly know what I mean.
This is basically a culture clash. If a muslim asylum seeker tells you that he/she has converted to Christianity you can be over 99.9 sure that it is lie. And any note saying otherwise written by some naive vicar should be just discarded. The solution to the problem is for the interview guidelines for the Civil Service to be written by someone who understands the nature of the people they're talking to - and not thinking that it's just like dealing with a Westerner because it's not.
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 3, 2024 9:43:36 GMT
Sorry posters, I dont get it Why would a man who supposedly converts from one faith to another faith make any difference to his asylum application. I suppose normal people would not ‘get it’ and that is no reflection upon you. Normal people would, i imagine, believe that most normal people of faith would be sad on hearing of people like me, who once stood with them as a lay preacher and now after a crisis of faith turn their back on the church, because they would see me as a fool who has turned his back on the offer of the afterlife eternal But in islam, those turning away from the path of the prophet, ESPECIALLY those who turn from him to the path of the other ‘children of the book’ (jews and christians to you, ‘the book’ being the Torah / First Five books of the Old Testament) are called apostates, and must in sharia be out to death by the most unpleasant (for them) and public manner possible Conversion to Christianity guarantees an asylum claim on the grounds the convert has a well founded fear of death at the hands of the state if returned where they came from The problem for people like me who have read Richard Burton’s (the victorian explorer, not the Welsh actor) translation of the Koran which was freely available from the Sacred Texts Archive website some years ago and might still be, is that islam preaches a theology of sacred righteous deception which allows the islamic to tell any untruth they wish to confound the infidel. Don't take my word for this, download the Koran and Hadiths as i did over twenty years ago when i first heard of that this site in its website form, it having been a dialup bulletin board at first, and read the truth for yourself. When you have you will see that while it is quite possible some people really have ‘converted’, the convenience of publicly claiming to have done so at some point after climbing in a rubber boat on a calais beach cannot be underestimated NOW do you see the problem |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 3, 2024 9:48:55 GMT
Unsurprising perhaps that a website dedicated to the human right to change your mind about matters of faith would make this clear but …. humanists.international/get-involved/resources/the-right-to-apostasy-in-the-world/… in at least 10 countries around the world ‘apostasy’, which is the act of leaving religion, is punishable by death. These countries are: Afghanistan, Brunei Darussalam, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen. |
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Post by buccaneer on Feb 3, 2024 9:49:17 GMT
It seems all Asylum seekers have to do is get a letter from the local vicar, and BINGO!!!
'Acid attacker' Abdul Ezedi is latest criminal suspect who won right to stay in UK after becoming Christian - as vicars are accused of helping asylum seekers beat immigration system with 'pray to stay' ruse.
They're taking the biscuit allowing the Vicar of Dibley to help beat the immigration system. It's a sick bloody joke! |
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Post by Fairsociety on Feb 3, 2024 10:00:21 GMT
It seems all Asylum seekers have to do is get a letter from the local vicar, and BINGO!!!
'Acid attacker' Abdul Ezedi is latest criminal suspect who won right to stay in UK after becoming Christian - as vicars are accused of helping asylum seekers beat immigration system with 'pray to stay' ruse.
They're taking the biscuit allowing the Vicar of Dibley to help beat the immigration system. It's a sick bloody joke! Couldn't agree more. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 3, 2024 13:32:06 GMT
The fact is that there are some laws that need to be changed, but there are also many things that the Civil Service need to do to make the situation wprk.
Firstly in order to deport an asylum seeker we have to give the asylum seeker the right to appeal 3 times. This is a "legacy" law left over from our EU days (Dublin 2 IIRC). We could change this, as it seems excessive. The other thing is that we pay for these legal costs on behalf of the asylum seeker. The next problem is that if the Home Office don't provide an advocate to argue against the case of the asylum seeker the Judge will simply grant asylum. An FOI question has bee tabled to find out if this happened in this case. It's apparently often the case that the HO just don't defend cases because they don't have an advocate available - or simply because they're inefficient and don't really want to expel illegals.
Next, even if we get through all these hurdles we then have to get permission from the deportation destination country to agree to his return. This is particularly difficult if the illegal has thrown away his ID - which most of them have done.
In this particular case it seems grossly incompetent that police haven't caught this "suspect" considering that they knew his name (he was known to the victim) and had photos of him as he was a convicted criminal. Why wasn't his description made public within hours of the crime? Was it political correctness again? He took public transport to get away from the crime scene but "the trail went cold" according to police. It went "cold" because his description hadn't been circulated until long after he had got out of the area.
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Post by dappy on Feb 3, 2024 13:36:44 GMT
This doesn’t affect the wider point but for what it is worth when the facts are fully known about Ezedi, we will discover that this guy is not of Muslim faith but a Yazidi.
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 3, 2024 13:39:29 GMT
This doesn’t affect the wider point but for what it is worth when the facts are fully known about Ezedi, we will discover that this guy is not of Muslim faith but a Yazidi. Meh, potato patato. The bottom line is he should not have been in this country. |
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Post by dappy on Feb 3, 2024 13:43:49 GMT
I agree. Patel and Braverman failed in their jobs prioritising tabloid headlines for nonsense like Rwanda over the boring task of getting acceptance criteria and appeals processes right.
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Post by steppenwolf on Feb 3, 2024 14:03:29 GMT
This doesn’t affect the wider point but for what it is worth when the facts are fully known about Ezedi, we will discover that this guy is not of Muslim faith but a Yazidi. Highly unlikely, but nor relevant in any case. The problems of misogyny are not confined to muslims - they're a cultural rather than a religious problem and they affect most of the Middle East. FWIW the people who knew him said he was a "good muslim" (according to the Mail) and regularly ordered halal meat from his butcher. He was said to be looking for a muslim bride. You can take apologism for islam a bit too far, dappy. |
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 3, 2024 14:23:51 GMT
This isn't new. Liverpool Bombing Case Reignites Controversy over Refugee Conversions"...[Liverpool] Cathedral has been actively involved in outreach and ministry to a wave of refugees who have come to the UK in recent years, welcoming over 200 as converts in a four-year span, The London Telegraph reported. By 2016, it had begun a weekly service in Persian for refugees from Iran." So your against litigatament Asylum Seekers coming to the UK. In my Church We must have between 20-30 Iranians attending Sunday morning Services. Most are young Single women and some Families. Because there persecuted in Iran. Are you saying Christians Shouldn't welcome Christians From other Countries that are Persecuted. I'm Sure you once said you was once a COE Christian Shame on you for having Such views. |
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 3, 2024 14:29:15 GMT
The fact is that there are some laws that need to be changed, but there are also many things that the Civil Service need to do to make the situation wprk. Firstly in order to deport an asylum seeker we have to give the asylum seeker the right to appeal 3 times. This is a "legacy" law left over from our EU days (Dublin 2 IIRC). We could change this, as it seems excessive. The other thing is that we pay for these legal costs on behalf of the asylum seeker. The next problem is that if the Home Office don't provide an advocate to argue against the case of the asylum seeker the Judge will simply grant asylum. An FOI question has bee tabled to find out if this happened in this case. It's apparently often the case that the HO just don't defend cases because they don't have an advocate available - or simply because they're inefficient and don't really want to expel illegals. Next, even if we get through all these hurdles we then have to get permission from the deportation destination country to agree to his return. This is particularly difficult if the illegal has thrown away his ID - which most of them have done. In this particular case it seems grossly incompetent that police haven't caught this "suspect" considering that they knew his name (he was known to the victim) and had photos of him as he was a convicted criminal. Why wasn't his description made public within hours of the crime? Was it political correctness again? He took public transport to get away from the crime scene but "the trail went cold" according to police. It went "cold" because his description hadn't been circulated until long after he had got out of the area. I take this is From Someone who's Worked and lived in a Muslim Country. But Been Well paid for there Services. Are you another Right winger willing to Sacafice there principles for Dirty Money? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 3, 2024 15:05:10 GMT
"In 2016 the Right Rev Pete Wilcox, who was dean of Liverpool Cathedral, where al-Swealmeen was later baptised, said that it had converted 200 asylum seekers in four years. He said that there were many motivations but acknowledged that Muslims who already had British citizenship were not converting. “I can’t think of a single example of somebody who already had British citizenship converting here with us from Islam to Christianity,” he said." www.thetimes.co.uk/article/clapham-attack-abdul-ezedi-muslim-search-latest-london-news-j7s67jb95 |
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 3, 2024 15:56:30 GMT
"In 2016 the Right Rev Pete Wilcox, who was dean of Liverpool Cathedral, where al-Swealmeen was later baptised, said that it had converted 200 asylum seekers in four years. He said that there were many motivations but acknowledged that Muslims who already had British citizenship were not converting. “I can’t think of a single example of somebody who already had British citizenship converting here with us from Islam to Christianity,” he said." www.thetimes.co.uk/article/clapham-attack-abdul-ezedi-muslim-search-latest-london-news-j7s67jb95Don't know what that got to. Do whith this . By 2016, it had begun a weekly service in Persian for refugees from Iran." Are you saying that no Refugees came from Iran that arent Christian? Your Article seems to paint to different Storys. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 3, 2024 16:02:23 GMT
"In 2016 the Right Rev Pete Wilcox, who was dean of Liverpool Cathedral, where al-Swealmeen was later baptised, said that it had converted 200 asylum seekers in four years. He said that there were many motivations but acknowledged that Muslims who already had British citizenship were not converting. “I can’t think of a single example of somebody who already had British citizenship converting here with us from Islam to Christianity,” he said." www.thetimes.co.uk/article/clapham-attack-abdul-ezedi-muslim-search-latest-london-news-j7s67jb95Don't know what that got to. Do whith this . By 2016, it had begun a weekly service in Persian for refugees from Iran." Are you saying that no Refugees came from Iran that arent Christian?
Your Article seems to paint to different Storys. Anybody who bothered to read the post would realise he didn’t . |
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