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Post by jonksy on Jan 26, 2024 6:58:09 GMT
A social experiment gone tragically wrong..
The whole nation was horrified by the slaying of two university students and a grandfather on the streets of Nottingham.
The innocent victims – Grace O'Malley-Kumar, Barnaby Webber and Ian Coates – were going about their lives when they were stabbed to death by a homicidal maniac.
This abomination not only consigns their loved ones to a lifetime of grief and pain. It also stands as a tragic memorial to a social experiment gone disastrously wrong. For the killer, Valdo Calocane, was a paranoid schizophrenic with a history of violence.
Valdo Calocane
That he could roam unsupervised when he was plainly such a danger to others is a shocking indictment of the grotesquely misnamed policy of care in the community.
Four times Calocane was sectioned by concerned mental health officials. Four times he was released. At the time of his rampage, this ticking timebomb was wanted by police for assaulting an officer, yet they had failed to locate him.
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Post by Dogburger on Jan 26, 2024 7:26:16 GMT
It was actually Margret Thatcher that phased out institutionalised care and put the responsibility in the hands of the local community in the early 80's
That did see many thousands allowed to participate in society without any degree of harm either to themselves or anybody else . The failure in this case is that those responsible for making sure this person wasn't a danger to anyone failed in their duty to do so .
Care in the community means exactly that ,care and nobody it seems took enough of it .
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Post by dappy on Jan 26, 2024 7:31:31 GMT
A very valid subject for a thread - how should we care for those with severe mental health issues. It could divert into how victims families are involved, if at all, in justice process or even into the rather pathetic pandering to the tabloids by the Attourney General.
All let down yet again by an idiotic thread title. Mods could I please request that you sort this out.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 26, 2024 7:39:29 GMT
Mod Notice
I have changed the title of this thread because, as Dogburger has pointed out, CitC was introduced by Thatcher and supported across the political spectrum at that time.
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Post by jonksy on Jan 26, 2024 7:39:31 GMT
It was actually Margret Thatcher that phased out institutionalised care and put the responsibility in the hands of the local community in the early 80'sThat did see many thousands allowed to participate in society without any degree of harm either to themselves or anybody else . The failure in this case is that those responsible for making sure this person wasn't a danger to anyone failed in their duty to do so . Care in the community means exactly that ,care and nobody it seems took enough of it . Yes it was. Thatcher closed all the mental health facilities and threw the patients onto the street and called "care in the community,,,
My gripe is that blair opened the floodgates and the lefty bleading heart lawyers made/and making a fortune from those who should not been allowed to come here in the first place. And as for social services we here time after time where infants and adults have been let down byy the system. Blair was supposedly going to increase funds and give more backing to "community care" instead of that it became another behemoth that answers to no one..
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Post by jonksy on Jan 26, 2024 7:41:17 GMT
Mod Notice
I have changed the title of this thread because, as Dogburger has pointed out, CitC was introduced by Thatcher and supported across the political spectrum at that time. I agree but blair was guilty of not doing what he said he would over CitC... |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 26, 2024 7:41:22 GMT
It was actually Margret Thatcher that phased out institutionalised care and put the responsibility in the hands of the local community in the early 80'sThat did see many thousands allowed to participate in society without any degree of harm either to themselves or anybody else . The failure in this case is that those responsible for making sure this person wasn't a danger to anyone failed in their duty to do so . Care in the community means exactly that ,care and nobody it seems took enough of it . Yes it was. Thatcher closed all the mental health facilities and threw the patients onto the street and called "care in the community,,,
My gripe is that blair opened the floodgates and the lefty bleading heart lawyers made/and making a fortune from those who should not been allowed to come here in the first place. And as for social services we here time after time where infants and adults have been let down byy the system. Blair was supposedly going to increase funds and give more backing to "community care" instead of that it became another behemoth that answers to no one..
The last thing you can accuse Blair of is not spending enough - Viv Nicholson had nothing on him.  |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 26, 2024 7:43:57 GMT
Yes it was. Thatcher closed all the mental health facilities and threw the patients onto the street and called "care in the community,,,
My gripe is that blair opened the floodgates and the lefty bleading heart lawyers made/and making a fortune from those who should not been allowed to come here in the first place. And as for social services we here time after time where infants and adults have been let down byy the system. Blair was supposedly going to increase funds and give more backing to "community care" instead of that it became another behemoth that answers to no one..
The last thing you can accuse Blair of is not spending enough - Viv Nicholson had nothing on him. It seems he spent it all on the wrong things... Like illegal wars etc. |
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Post by Handyman on Jan 26, 2024 8:08:22 GMT
It was actually Margret Thatcher that phased out institutionalised care and put the responsibility in the hands of the local community in the early 80's That did see many thousands allowed to participate in society without any degree of harm either to themselves or anybody else . The failure in this case is that those responsible for making sure this person wasn't a danger to anyone failed in their duty to do so . Care in the community means exactly that ,care and nobody it seems took enough of it . Yes Thatcher did bring in Care in the Community, many with Mental Illnesses can and do function well in the community with the correct medication provided they take it or supervised by family friends , this man did not take his. Police can and do take them into custody if they are in a public place and are considered a danger to themselves or others take then to a Hospital then they are the responsibility of the Hospital, more often than not they are released once stable. Magistrates can commit them if they are brought before them for committing an offence as well, but again usually back into the Community within a short time, there are many in Prison that have had psychotic episodes from drug abuse Cannabis or other stronger drugs and either seriously injured or killed others during such episodes. the Funny Farms are usually full. IMHO. Why did the Court give him bail ? why did the Police not find him after the Court issued an arrest warrant when he failed to attend Court for assaulting a Police Officer, again IMHO even if they had he would probably be back on the streets once he had been stabilised, but its easy to be wise afterwards, the system failed and three people are dead. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 26, 2024 8:14:16 GMT
It was actually Margret Thatcher that phased out institutionalised care and put the responsibility in the hands of the local community in the early 80's That did see many thousands allowed to participate in society without any degree of harm either to themselves or anybody else . The failure in this case is that those responsible for making sure this person wasn't a danger to anyone failed in their duty to do so . Care in the community means exactly that ,care and nobody it seems took enough of it . Yes Thatcher did bring in Care in the Community, many with Mental Illnesses can and do function well in the community with the correct medication provided they take it or supervised by family friends , this man did not take his. Police can and do take them into custody if they are in a public place and are considered a danger to themselves or others take then to a Hospital then they are the responsibility of the Hospital, more often than not they are released once stable. Magistrates can commit them if they are brought before them for committing an offence as well, but again usually back into the Community within a short time, there are many in Prison that have had psychotic episodes from drug abuse Cannabis or other stronger drugs and either seriously injured or killed others during such episodes. the Funny Farms are usually full. IMHO. Why did the Court give him bail ? why did the Police not find him after the Court issued an arrest warrant when he failed to attend Court for assaulting a Police Officer, again IMHO even if they had he would probably be back on the streets once he had been stabilised, but its easy to be wise afterwards, the system failed and three people are dead. Its only the police and fire sevice that are lumbered with being care workers. Where are all the mental health establishment that Blair promised? |
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Post by Handyman on Jan 26, 2024 8:31:42 GMT
Our entire infrastructure is creaking at the seams due to the size of the population , we cannot keep pace with the huge demand on it or quick enough
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Post by jonksy on Jan 26, 2024 8:38:02 GMT
Our entire infrastructure is creaking at the seams due to the size of the population , we cannot keep pace with the huge demand on it or quick enough It will only get worse if labour gets in Handy. |
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Post by Dogburger on Jan 26, 2024 8:47:26 GMT
Yes Thatcher did bring in Care in the Community, many with Mental Illnesses can and do function well in the community with the correct medication provided they take it or supervised by family friends , this man did not take his. Police can and do take them into custody if they are in a public place and are considered a danger to themselves or others take then to a Hospital then they are the responsibility of the Hospital, more often than not they are released once stable. Magistrates can commit them if they are brought before them for committing an offence as well, but again usually back into the Community within a short time, there are many in Prison that have had psychotic episodes from drug abuse Cannabis or other stronger drugs and either seriously injured or killed others during such episodes. the Funny Farms are usually full. IMHO. Why did the Court give him bail ? why did the Police not find him after the Court issued an arrest warrant when he failed to attend Court for assaulting a Police Officer, again IMHO even if they had he would probably be back on the streets once he had been stabilised, but its easy to be wise afterwards, the system failed and three people are dead. Its only the police and fire sevice that are lumbered with being care workers. Where are all the mental health establishment that Blair promised? Care in the community changed under Blair , it became target driven and supposedly devolved to local communities .This article may be of interest www.communitycare.co.uk/2007/05/09/tony-blair-the-social-care-legacy/ |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 26, 2024 8:56:32 GMT
Its only the police and fire sevice that are lumbered with being care workers. Where are all the mental health establishment that Blair promised? Care in the community changed under Blair , it became target driven and supposedly devolved to local communities .This article may be of interest www.communitycare.co.uk/2007/05/09/tony-blair-the-social-care-legacy/What Blair stated and was was reality are two different things unfortunately. |
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Post by walterpaisley on Jan 26, 2024 8:57:30 GMT
Both of my boys are/were closely involved with this issue.
Youngest works with street homeless (in Nottingham - he was actually doing a "street audit" as it unfolded, and a colleague of his is the hostel worker who fought the killer off when he tried to break into his establishment!), and knows that many of his clients are people with significant mental health needs. Even if they're in the treatment loop, expecting a homeless person leading a chaotic life to keep up with a treatment/medication regime is hopeless. (And those services, themselves, are now cut to the extent that they barely exist..).
As for D.C Eldest Son: He spent his last year in uniform as Desk Sergeant - booking in and overseeing guests of the Police Service. There were times when ALL of the visitors to his Sheffield station were people undergoing mental health distress.
It's all unsustainable.
The problem is that any "solution" is going to be expensive. REALLY expensive. A network of new treatment facilities - from clinics to residential units - new staffing, from psychiatrists and medical professionals to psychiatric social workers, etc. And it's not just spending - it's spending that's neither high profile, nor politically advantageous.
There WAS a case for "Care in the Community". Hospitals were full of people who shouldn't be there, and who - with appropriate support - could live independently. The problem with the policy, from the outset, was that it was seen as a cost cutting bonanza, as care responsibility was taken from the NHS and handed over to a hodgepodge of Health, Local Authority, Charities, Private Companies (someone who IS sectioned to a place for treatment might easily be cared for in a private unit - IF a bed is available. The weekly charge for such a placement can easily be many thousands of pounds per day..), and family.
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