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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 2, 2024 22:05:45 GMT
Just heard this and it made me laugh. Not a genuine haha laugh you understand, more of a resigned grunt if I'm honest. I just heard someone say...
"The reason Sunak will not withdraw the UK from the ECHR is because it would ruin his reputation on the dinner party circuit".
Sounds perfectly plausible to me, whether it's true or not is neither here nor there because that is the perception and in politics perception is everything. Rich Rishi gives the impression of a wealthy geek rather than a competent conservative prime minister. I think he will be remembered as one of our worst, if not the worst conservative prime minister and I'm including Liz Truss. He should be a Labour MP, not a Tory.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 3, 2024 1:28:01 GMT
He has a new dictionary definition of "clearing the backlog" which is alien to you or I. How can we take this man seriously after the 'reduced the number of boats' claim? He is a serial liar.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 3, 2024 12:29:37 GMT
Just heard this and it made me laugh. Not a genuine haha laugh you understand, more of a resigned grunt if I'm honest. I just heard someone say... "The reason Sunak will not withdraw the UK from the ECHR is because it would ruin his reputation on the dinner party circuit"... I totally agree. Such a move would be immensely popular with the electorate. But politicians are not interested in serving the electorate - they are only interested in their standing within their own social strata. It's why it's increasingly difficult to tell the main parties apart - they both serve the same establishment. It's why they're all so afraid of people like Farage and parties like Reform who don't kiss establishment arse. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 3, 2024 12:38:15 GMT
I totally agree. Such a move would be immensely popular with the electorate. Do you have evidence of this or are you taking a guess? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 3, 2024 12:44:51 GMT
I totally agree. Such a move would be immensely popular with the electorate. Do you have evidence of this or are you taking a guess? I live in the real world Andy where most normal people are thoroughly pissed off that foreign criminals can't be removed because of spurious "Human Rights" bullshit.
And most of us are sick of paying for the endless money-go-round of dodgy lawyers that go with it.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 3, 2024 12:51:59 GMT
I'll classify that as taking a guess.
Not saying you are wrong, but I'm saying that you are trying to present something as a fact which is actually an opinion. There's other people who do it all the time on this forum too, but it's trying to stifle debate.
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Post by Cartertonian on Jan 3, 2024 14:11:17 GMT
What TSM means is that it would be popular with a certain part of the electorate and so he is deploying the silent majority fallacy. That part will identify themselves at the forthcoming general election by either doggedly propping up the rump of the Tory party or defecting to even more unhinged parties like Reform/Reclaim etc. It will remain to be seen as to whether they really are a majority.
What advocates fail to appreciate is that if the govt withdraw from ECHR, to deny rights to people they don't like, the same govt could then easily switch their attention onto people they do like, or themselves.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 3, 2024 14:36:38 GMT
Actually, it's worse than that, they don't actually understand that they are THEIR rights that they want abolished.
Some of the dishonest media have you believe that human rights only apply to foreigners. I'm just surprised that people are gullible like that.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 3, 2024 15:04:27 GMT
What many don't realise is that foreigners who don't enjoy human rights at home - their countries not being signatories to the ECvHR - become immediately bestowed with the full set the moment they come 'within the jurisdiction' of a signatory. That could be something as simple as stepping off a dinghy onto a south coast beach, arriving as a tourist (or a hijacker) or being present in a conflict zone where a signatory is operating.
This is perhaps the aspect of the convention that needs the most urgent overhaul.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 3, 2024 15:58:16 GMT
Actually, it's worse than that, they don't actually understand that they are THEIR rights that they want abolished. Some of the dishonest media have you believe that human rights only apply to foreigners. I'm just surprised that people are gullible like that. There are not an infinite amount of Human Rights - if you give more rights to one section of the community that invariably means that you take rights away from another.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 18:08:45 GMT
Actually, it's worse than that, they don't actually understand that they are THEIR rights that they want abolished. Some of the dishonest media have you believe that human rights only apply to foreigners. I'm just surprised that people are gullible like that. The reality is that Human Rights are selective on the Left. It's why they smear, no-platform and ban people who challenges Sharia. The Left will scream Islamophobia and insist it's racist to oppose a Sharia driven movement. They do this whilst aligning themselves with Islamists and attack Jews in London.
I wouldn't underestimate left-wing hypocrisy today.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 3, 2024 18:35:15 GMT
What TSM means is that it would be popular with a certain part of the electorate and so he is deploying the silent majority fallacy. That part will identify themselves at the forthcoming general election by either doggedly propping up the rump of the Tory party or defecting to even more unhinged parties like Reform/Reclaim etc. It will remain to be seen as to whether they really are a majority. What advocates fail to appreciate is that if the govt withdraw from ECHR, to deny rights to people they don't like, the same govt could then easily switch their attention onto people they do like, or themselves. Actually, it's worse than that, they don't actually understand that they are THEIR rights that they want abolished. Some of the dishonest media have you believe that human rights only apply to foreigners. I'm just surprised that people are gullible like that. Yes, because we had no rights prior to 1998... Oh no, wait - we did. What we didn't have was a money-go-round of spurious "Human Rights" bullshit. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 20:14:46 GMT
He has a new dictionary definition of "clearing the backlog" which is alien to you or I. How can we take this man seriously after the 'reduced the number of boats' claim? He is a serial liar. Trouble is he is far from alone in that. Most politicians are serial liars, from Starmer to Johnson, and from Blair to Clegg. None of the senior politiciams of any mainstream party are people worthy of trust. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 9:32:36 GMT
Just heard this and it made me laugh. Not a genuine haha laugh you understand, more of a resigned grunt if I'm honest. I just heard someone say... "The reason Sunak will not withdraw the UK from the ECHR is because it would ruin his reputation on the dinner party circuit"... I totally agree. Such a move would be immensely popular with the electorate. But politicians are not interested in serving the electorate - they are only interested in their standing within their own social strata. It's why it's increasingly difficult to tell the main parties apart - they both serve the same establishment. It's why they're all so afraid of people like Farage and parties like Reform who don't kiss establishment arse. I agree, both Starmer and Sunak know that withdrawing the UK from the ECHR would be very unpopular with the EU, the UN, the WHO and lots of other left wing socialist organisations, but very popular with the electorate. Sadly, as long as they both refuse to do it neither of them will lose votes over it. It's as if they're patting the electorate on the head and saying, fuck democracy we know what's best. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 4, 2024 12:17:26 GMT
but very popular with the electorate. I asked Squeezed, so only fair I ask you too. Do you have evidence of this, or are you trying to portray your opinion as fact? |
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