|
Post by Vinny on Dec 30, 2023 12:22:55 GMT
Rather a lot of Palestinian journalists have been killed.
The bombing of civilians is unacceptable in our era. The tech exists now, to put a kinetic missile through a window from miles away and kill a single terrorist with no collateral damage. Ayman Al Zawahiri was killed by such methods.
The Israelis are armed by the USA, meaning they have some of the same tech.
There is no need to collectively punish the Palestinian people. And, collective punishment encourages collective resistance.
Collective punishment today creates the Hamas of tomorrow. People so brutalised and angry they will strap a suicide vest on, get on a bus full of people and blow themselves up.
It's necessary to kill off Hamas, but Netanyahu's methods will not achieve such a thing.
What he will do is regenerate Hamas.
3-4 years time, 5 years tops and it will kick off again.
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 30, 2023 12:26:35 GMT
The news that came out of Israel was supported by videos but you say it does not represent what it said it represented. It is the inability to view both sides with some circumspection that I query. You seem to accept all negative opinions and information as regards Israel but take at face value that which arises from Palestinian sources. The point about the journalists which you seem to have missed is that they were in the main Palestinian yet you would not accept Israeli reports if they were in the main by the Israeli press. So the Palestinian journalists are faking the videos, are you crazy?? Over 21,000 dead, 100s of 2000lb bombs on civilian structures what more proof do you need? It is the dogmatic approach to information that is the problem. You accept quite willingly that Israel are involved in fakery and misinformation as a routine yet you seem unable to accept that the same may be happening to some degree on the other side. We know the Palestinians have used the same actor in multiple roles in the past. It is the information you accept and the information you reject that tells the tale.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 14:47:28 GMT
So the Palestinian journalists are faking the videos, are you crazy?? Over 21,000 dead, 100s of 2000lb bombs on civilian structures what more proof do you need? It is the dogmatic approach to information that is the problem. You accept quite willingly that Israel are involved in fakery and misinformation as a routine yet you seem unable to accept that the same may be happening to some degree on the other side. We know the Palestinians have used the same actor in multiple roles in the past. It is the information you accept and the information you reject that tells the tale. I accept quite willingly that there are over 21,000 dead, how many do you accept as being dead?
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 30, 2023 17:25:35 GMT
It is the dogmatic approach to information that is the problem. You accept quite willingly that Israel are involved in fakery and misinformation as a routine yet you seem unable to accept that the same may be happening to some degree on the other side. We know the Palestinians have used the same actor in multiple roles in the past. It is the information you accept and the information you reject that tells the tale. I accept quite willingly that there are over 21,000 dead, how many do you accept as being dead? To quote someone somewhere on this thread we do not know the truth, I am unsure how you manage to now know it without equivocation. Acceptance does not make something true it just makes it accepted. Are there tunnels in Gaza (that you and I paid for), does Hamas exist, was it just a smacked bottom exercise on 7/10.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2023 17:45:52 GMT
I accept quite willingly that there are over 21,000 dead, how many do you accept as being dead? To quote someone somewhere on this thread we do not know the truth, I am unsure how you manage to now know it without equivocation. Acceptance does not make something true it just makes it accepted. Are there tunnels in Gaza (that you and I paid for), does Hamas exist, was it just a smacked bottom exercise on 7/10. Then you read what I said wrong, probably deliberately. Because I do not know an exact number I continue saying plus or minus. It is accepted by most of the countries of the world and I have heard no alternative figures that the number of dead in Gaza is over 21,000. One 2000lb bomb devastates a region of approximately an 800m circumference from where it explodes, that in a civilian area will cause a large number of fatalities, they are not dropping them on fields. The Israeli's have dropped hundreds of 2000lb bombs as the USA have stated.
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 30, 2023 18:14:58 GMT
To quote someone somewhere on this thread we do not know the truth, I am unsure how you manage to now know it without equivocation. Acceptance does not make something true it just makes it accepted. Are there tunnels in Gaza (that you and I paid for), does Hamas exist, was it just a smacked bottom exercise on 7/10. Then you read what I said wrong, probably deliberately. Because I do not know an exact number I continue saying plus or minus. It is accepted by most of the countries of the world and I have heard no alternative figures that the number of dead in Gaza is over 21,000. One 2000lb bomb devastates a region of approximately an 800m circumference from where it explodes, that in a civilian area will cause a large number of fatalities, they are not dropping them on fields. The Israeli's have dropped hundreds of 2000lb bombs as the USA have stated. So you do know the truth and that truth is based on analysis and information provided by the USA. Are you sure you want to go down that line? I think the bombs are called bunker busters and bearing in mind how Hamas have embedded themselves in Gaza. You did not refer to plus or minus you said over 21,000.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2023 5:36:49 GMT
Then you read what I said wrong, probably deliberately. Because I do not know an exact number I continue saying plus or minus. It is accepted by most of the countries of the world and I have heard no alternative figures that the number of dead in Gaza is over 21,000. One 2000lb bomb devastates a region of approximately an 800m circumference from where it explodes, that in a civilian area will cause a large number of fatalities, they are not dropping them on fields. The Israeli's have dropped hundreds of 2000lb bombs as the USA have stated. So you do know the truth and that truth is based on analysis and information provided by the USA. Are you sure you want to go down that line? I think the bombs are called bunker busters and bearing in mind how Hamas have embedded themselves in Gaza. You did not refer to plus or minus you said over 21,000. To be fair i still have had no response to my question "how many Palestinians do you think have been killed in Gaza" which I find happens all the time. Bunker busters may be right but is appalling that Israel are using hundreds of these bombs on civilian areas which has extracted a huge death toll. Another question that you will not answer: Would you support the UK government bombing a civilian area in Wales if they 'suspected' terrorists were in it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2023 10:25:36 GMT
So you do know the truth and that truth is based on analysis and information provided by the USA. Are you sure you want to go down that line? I think the bombs are called bunker busters and bearing in mind how Hamas have embedded themselves in Gaza. You did not refer to plus or minus you said over 21,000. To be fair i still have had no response to my question "how many Palestinians do you think have been killed in Gaza" which I find happens all the time. Bunker busters may be right but is appalling that Israel are using hundreds of these bombs on civilian areas which has extracted a huge death toll. Another question that you will not answer: Would you support the UK government bombing a civilian area in Wales if they 'suspected' terrorists were in it? They cleared the civilian areas first. They leafletted, phoned them, texted them, they were all seen leaving. That left the Hamas fighters, who they are still fighting. The Israelis say they have killed 8,000 Hamas fighters. Some of these will be children, because they start them young. How many Palestinians in total have been killed? No idea. Hamas have not ceased firing yet. When they surrender the war will finish.
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Dec 31, 2023 10:28:27 GMT
To be fair i still have had no response to my question "how many Palestinians do you think have been killed in Gaza" which I find happens all the time. Bunker busters may be right but is appalling that Israel are using hundreds of these bombs on civilian areas which has extracted a huge death toll. Another question that you will not answer: Would you support the UK government bombing a civilian area in Wales if they 'suspected' terrorists were in it? They cleared the civilian areas first. They leafletted, phoned them, texted them, they were all seen leaving. That left the Hamas fighters, who they are still fighting. The Israelis say they have killed 8,000 Hamas fighters. Some of these will be children, because they start them young. How many Palestinians in total have been killed? No idea. Hamas have not ceased firing yet. When they surrender the war will finish. No it won't it will create several others.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2023 10:47:29 GMT
To be fair i still have had no response to my question "how many Palestinians do you think have been killed in Gaza" which I find happens all the time. Bunker busters may be right but is appalling that Israel are using hundreds of these bombs on civilian areas which has extracted a huge death toll. Another question that you will not answer: Would you support the UK government bombing a civilian area in Wales if they 'suspected' terrorists were in it? They cleared the civilian areas first. They leafletted, phoned them, texted them, they were all seen leaving. That left the Hamas fighters, who they are still fighting. The Israelis say they have killed 8,000 Hamas fighters. Some of these will be children, because they start them young. How many Palestinians in total have been killed? No idea. Hamas have not ceased firing yet. When they surrender the war will finish. It appears you will believe anything you are told by Israel. It is impossible to move hundreds of thousands of people in the limited time allowed by the Israelis. When people did move they were bombed. Three Hamas fighters were Israeli hostages carrying a white flag, therefore common sense says they are killing Palestinian civilians with no regard as to whether they are Hamas or not. Babies of a few months old are not terrorists but the IDF left them to die in a hospital. Why should the victims ceasefire against an invading army?
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 31, 2023 15:55:09 GMT
So you do know the truth and that truth is based on analysis and information provided by the USA. Are you sure you want to go down that line? I think the bombs are called bunker busters and bearing in mind how Hamas have embedded themselves in Gaza. You did not refer to plus or minus you said over 21,000. To be fair i still have had no response to my question "how many Palestinians do you think have been killed in Gaza" which I find happens all the time. Bunker busters may be right but is appalling that Israel are using hundreds of these bombs on civilian areas which has extracted a huge death toll. Another question that you will not answer: Would you support the UK government bombing a civilian area in Wales if they 'suspected' terrorists were in it? I have no clear idea how many it is probably many thousands as that does not seem to be disputed. To answer your next question that very much depends. If from Wales there were rockets being fired daily into Bristol and Gloucester and if members of Plaid Cwmru crossed the border and killed thousands of people in Hereford, Leominster and Ludlow, torturing and killing and taking many thousands hostage I may have a lot less sympathy. Since we are on numbers and see if you can answer how many Jews were killed in the holocaust bearing in mind the official Palestinian belief on the Holocaust as a non event and the numbers were wildly exaggerated.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2023 16:32:01 GMT
To be fair i still have had no response to my question "how many Palestinians do you think have been killed in Gaza" which I find happens all the time. Bunker busters may be right but is appalling that Israel are using hundreds of these bombs on civilian areas which has extracted a huge death toll. Another question that you will not answer: Would you support the UK government bombing a civilian area in Wales if they 'suspected' terrorists were in it? I have no clear idea how many it is probably many thousands as that does not seem to be disputed. To answer your next question that very much depends. If from Wales there were rockets being fired daily into Bristol and Gloucester and if members of Plaid Cwmru crossed the border and killed thousands of people in Hereford, Leominster and Ludlow, torturing and killing and taking many thousands hostage I may have a lot less sympathy. Since we are on numbers and see if you can answer how many Jews were killed in the holocaust bearing in mind the official Palestinian belief on the Holocaust as a non event and the numbers were wildly exaggerated. The holocaust has nothing to do with it. The Palestinians are an occupied territory and have been for decades and as such, under international law, have a right to defend themselves. Whether Palestine believes in or does not believe in the holocaust or disputes the numbers has nothing to do with the genocide that is taking place in Gaza today. It does appear that you answer infers that you would not support the bombing of civilian structures in Wales but you do in Gaza.
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 31, 2023 16:48:22 GMT
They cleared the civilian areas first. They leafletted, phoned them, texted them, they were all seen leaving. That left the Hamas fighters, who they are still fighting. The Israelis say they have killed 8,000 Hamas fighters. Some of these will be children, because they start them young. How many Palestinians in total have been killed? No idea. Hamas have not ceased firing yet. When they surrender the war will finish. It appears you will believe anything you are told by Israel. It is impossible to move hundreds of thousands of people in the limited time allowed by the Israelis. When people did move they were bombed. Three Hamas fighters were Israeli hostages carrying a white flag, therefore common sense says they are killing Palestinian civilians with no regard as to whether they are Hamas or not. Babies of a few months old are not terrorists but the IDF left them to die in a hospital. Why should the victims ceasefire against an invading army? Because they requested one.
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 31, 2023 16:51:07 GMT
I have no clear idea how many it is probably many thousands as that does not seem to be disputed. To answer your next question that very much depends. If from Wales there were rockets being fired daily into Bristol and Gloucester and if members of Plaid Cwmru crossed the border and killed thousands of people in Hereford, Leominster and Ludlow, torturing and killing and taking many thousands hostage I may have a lot less sympathy. Since we are on numbers and see if you can answer how many Jews were killed in the holocaust bearing in mind the official Palestinian belief on the Holocaust as a non event and the numbers were wildly exaggerated. The holocaust has nothing to do with it. The Palestinians are an occupied territory and have been for decades and as such, under international law, have a right to defend themselves. Whether Palestine believes in or does not believe in the holocaust or disputes the numbers has nothing to do with the genocide that is taking place in Gaza today. It does appear that you answer infers that you would not support the bombing of civilian structures in Wales but you do in Gaza. If the official position of the Welsh government were that England had no right to exist and that it's population should be wiped out then yes, I'd support the bombing of Wales.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2023 17:36:19 GMT
The holocaust has nothing to do with it. The Palestinians are an occupied territory and have been for decades and as such, under international law, have a right to defend themselves. Whether Palestine believes in or does not believe in the holocaust or disputes the numbers has nothing to do with the genocide that is taking place in Gaza today. It does appear that you answer infers that you would not support the bombing of civilian structures in Wales but you do in Gaza. If the official position of the Welsh government were that England had no right to exist and that it's population should be wiped out then yes, I'd support the bombing of Wales. The very core of the Hamas document that said Israel should not exist has been superseded by later 'policies' but of course you know that.
|
|